Spinlock cleat for main-sheet

Today I purchased a Spinlock model PXR0810T to replace the jam-cleat that came OE on my H17's mainsheet/block. I haven't sailed with it yet.

The spec on the Spinlock calls for a line diameter ranging from .312 to .390. The spec on the H17 sheet is 7/16 (.437"). BUT, when I measure the line on my H17 sheet it measures .390" (dry), and fills the aperture on the Spinlock with no room to spare. There is also a noticeable increase in drag.

Has anyone been there done that with the Spinlock? Any comments?

Thanks,

Dan Peake
H17 SE 2003
Campbell, CA[/img]

I really like the spinlock cleats, use them on my jib on my H21SE. I do stay within the line size. I think that you will find that with the substantial improvements in line strength/size over the past ten years you can use MUCH smaller lines than what Hobie originally called for. Take for instance the popular move to replacing heavy shroud and trap wires with rope. I would go to a high stength line of the size the cleat was designed for and I think you'll like it.

I tried a Spinlock on my H-17 main sheet several years ago. It did not work well, and it now sits in my tool box. It fouls easily with sand or dirt. Had more drag, and was not as easy to release as the standard Harken.

Caleb Tarleton
H-17 6446

Thanks for the replies. My situation has no exposure to sand and dirt, and I am very thorough about washing things down and lubing after sailing, so fouling due to contaminants does not worry me to much. But when you say "difficult release" you've got my attention! Did you find the mechanism not releasing as designed (when clean and newly installed) or was it an awkward angle required for release that made it difficult?

Thanks,

Dan
2003 H17 SE

I believe spinlock had an original design that was upgraded last year and that the newer ones are much better. Mine work great. Not sure how you get sand in them but I can see how that would foul them.
The release is the whole advantage. My wife is the jib tender, she's a good sport but does not have big hand strength and the H21SE jib is fairly large with only two to one block advantage. I would often give it an extra tug after she sheeted it when close hauling but then she could not get it out of the Harken cleats, that's why I changed. She initially had a some trouble getting used to them, as she does with all new stuff, but now she's much better and I am never asked to uncleat the jib sheets.
There's an adjustment for release resistance using the sheet. You can also go to the cleat and flip it up with your hand to release as a last resort.
BTW, they are a very simple 10 minute, all the screws line up, install to the Harken bases.
This kind of sounds like an ad, I'm not involved with these cleats, just like 'em.

You could try using an 8 mm Flightline (New England Ropes) mainsheet with the Spinlock PXR0810/T - it is on the thin side of 8 mm. That is what I am using in that cleat with good success so far.

Dan, the problems I had with the Spinlock on the Main Sheet for my H-17 were control and release. It was difficult to get it adjusted for release from the tramp, and also from the wire, trapped out on the wing. Also, there seemed to be a lot of drag in the line feeding in when released.

Any sand or dirt also fouled the unit. Perhaps this has been improved on newer models. During a Regatta, getting some sand and dirt on the main sheet while coming in to the beach can be a problem.

Good luck with the unit, and let us know how it works out.

Caleb

I am going to try to get out tomorrow, and I'll let you know how it works.

I did a little study in my shop to compare the lock and release angles of the OE Cam Cleat against the Spinlock.

Using a bench vise to hold the cleat / lower block, and a vertical yard stick six feet away, I simply raised and lowered the sheet next to the yard stick and recorded the measurements at the moment of lock or release.

OE Cam: Release-to-lock span 16" (on yard stick 21" to 37")
Spinlock: Release-to-lock span 14" (on yard stick 11" to 25")

Two inches total difference, which trig's out to a 1.5 degree difference - not much. I found that using a light whipping motion the Spinlock range closed down to around 11 inches. I also found that in order to put the sheet angle / operating position of the Spinlock to match that of the OE Cam cleat, I needed to index the cleat bracket on the block UP one step.

The practical differences (under heavy load) will flesh out on the boat tomorrow - I hope I don't go for a swim in SF Bay!

Peace,

Dan
Campbell, CA
03 H17 SE

I'm not sure you are really measuring what the cleat is trying to accomplish. It's the amount of force required to uncleat that is the biggest advantage, really only measurable when the line is under considerable tension, like when you have the jib sheeted hard for beating. In that circumstance the differences are huge.
Addaitionally the cam cleat has only one method to uncleat, the spinlock can be manipulated without even touching the line to uncleat.
Also pay attention to the little yellow adjusting tab. It adjusts the amount of force needed to set and unlock the cleat.

I have not tried them as a replacement for my mainsheet camcleet ... but I have replaced the JR Jamcleats on my boom for mast rotation and outhaul w/ spinlocs ... My 12yr old niece(lastseason) just LOVES those puppies ... at "A"mark, just a tap on the top the outhaul releases to its stopper knot ... a tap on top of the mast rotator spinloc releasing it and the "bungie" overrotation sytem overrotates the mast to is stopper knot ... "HELM IS DOWN" ... and we round "A" mark ..... I calculate that those spinlocs gain us 20 yards/rounding as the boat "switchs gears" from up-wind to down-wind mode in seconds. At the leeward mark we have the mast rotation line and outhaul marked and all Megan does is pull them in until the marks are in the correct place ... NO MORE STUGGLING W/ JR JAM CLEATS. Easy release/easy cleat

Note that for the mast rotation I a mounted a "guide" in front of the spinloc to insure the line was in alignment w/ the spinloc and not to allow the spinloc to be pulled/loaded-up sideways.

I also use a spinloc for my spinnacker halyard on my P19MX w/ a 25sqM spinnacker. It works great there also

But on a Mainsheet Block Stack ... I'm not sure on ... that application may require a little more of the "KISS" principle ... and camcleats are very simple.

Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Thanks for all the replies! I put the Spinlock on my boat tonight, but since there was no wind, I was unable to really test it. It does seem like it will work well though. I'll keep everyone posted.

Best

Dan
Campbell, CA
03 H17 SE

The Spinlock is cleverly done, and is fantastic for applications where the user is at a consistent envelope of operation (angle and distance) and the cleat is in a fixed position. I truly admire the engineering, the attention to detail and the excellent quality of the product.

Unfortunately, the control of a HC main sail does not fall within that envelope. The problems I experienced were line drag, likelihood of accidental release (getting dunked) and difficulty in setting the cleat under tension - ESPECIALLY while on the wire. In addition, there seemed to be a tendency for the block to fall over the rear cross bar when there was slack in the sheet, perhaps due to the long shape and weight; emphasize the word "seemed".

I found no issues relating to release difficulty. When the Spinlonck toggle tension setting (level 1, 2, or 3) was set to a level that permitted a whip-to-set, it would release a little to easily, which meant the decay of the whip action used to set it, would release it. Lot's of technique required.

Changing mounting angles was a trade-off, when I lowered the angle of the cleat mounting plane on the lower block, the release procedure became a whip-only affair, meaning I could not just pull down on the line to release; the angle was wrong, I needed to whip, which is not acceptable.

If my lower block had smaller increments on the cleat plane angle adjustment, then perhaps some of these problems could be solved, but in the end, I do not see the Spin-lock as equal to, or better than the stock opposed-cam-cleat. And in some practical ways, it is inferior to the cam type.

Peace,

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Dan Peake
2003 H17SE
2005 FX1

Thanks Dan for the information. I was talking to my friend Glenn over the week-end and he said they had tried the spinloc on the Tornado Mainsheet stack at one point and had basically the same experience.

But I am still a little curious ... who's/what "blocks" were you using? Harkens? Lewmar? I switched to Lewmar from Harken 3" Big Block that came stock w/ the boat because I found the adjustment on the Lewmar for the camcleet angle "more" adjustable (greater range/finer adjustments) then the Harkens at the time. Maybe the "Harken Carbo" series would be a better match also? They came out just after I spent the $$$$'s for the Lewmar's ... but the Lewmars do work sweet!!!

The restrictions you discribed perfectly explain the application/conditions for the Outhaul and Mast Rotation. A spinloc works in those applications EXCELLENTLY!!! Swap out those JR Jamcleets for Spinlocs ... it makes your crew's life/job much more pleasent and enjoyable ( no more upsetting the crew w/ YELLING "Release the Outhaul ... the outhaul ...." as they struggle w/ the JR Jamcleet...)

Sail Flat, Sail Fast
Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Harry, my lower block is the stock unit supplied with the boat. If memory serves, it was produced by Harken.

In the H17 forum today Matt Bounds replied to a post of mine with a nice little piece of hardware info. I was having trouble tacking in SF bay chop and this is what he said:



Sounds perfect for the tacking, hopefully a set/release improvement as well. I need to ask him what size line he uses.

I am planning to attend the Pacific Sail Expo in Oakland CA tomorrow. I will be shopping for the ideal lower block solution, hopefully comparing others to that which Matt has suggested. I'll post any interesting findings.

Peace,

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Dan Peake
2003 H17SE
2005 FX1

I use the Ratchamatic with swiftcord and will confirm Matt, it will run out in even the lightest wind. very very nice if not just a smidge(SP) pricey

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