TURBO FINS PROBLEMS

I'm sorry fellows I can not see my self spending $100. for a emergency repair kit for a kayak, esp. since I took a friends yak out, and ended up braking one fin and losing the other. I fish all over La. and love it; but I cann't see myself spending an extra $4o.00 for a replacement fin every time I go out. I did enjoy the experience My son loved it, but the $ doesn't add up. I fish by means of trolling about 75% of the time, and I like the idea of the mirage drive but until all the bugs have been worked out I'll keep on paddling. Please let me know when the problem will be fixed!
Thanks and God Bless and Good fishing
Jnoel

Incorrect. $20 per fin. $40 per pair.

I don't think Hobie will say this, but just maybe they're not prepared to make a craft of this design that is able to endure total abuse and neglect. And if they did, not many of us could afford something like that. It'd be nice. Airplanes need wings, rudders etc. Car's need wheels, brakes. They all fail. Some before others depending on the care. The Hobie design is by far more than adequate for what it does when taking proper care of it. I've had the Mirage system in one kayak or another since 2004. I've not broken anything or bent anything that has stopped me from going fishing. From what you said, someone had things adjusted or installed improperly. You suffered failures due to someone's habits or knowledge. Don't lay the total blame on the equipment itself. Not ranting, just stating what I've witnessed and experience I've enjoyed with the Mirage system. You'd be better off with a Quest probably. Nothing mechanical involved. Good luck with your decisions. Have a good day and tight lines. I won't be without my Hobie Mirage system as long as I can physically "kick it."

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Yakkingaway
Portsmouth, VA

I've hit objects hard with the standard fins, bending the heck out of the steel rods, and not once did the fins ever rip. A few minor bumps that didn't bend the rod at all have caused my ST Turbo fins to rip. I believe Hobie will be hearing many more complaints about the inferior construction of the ST Turbo fins.

True, Turbofins are not as rugged as standard fins. But they're a lot faster and more efficient. Physically they are slightly thinner in some areas:



Hobie has improved the compound on these fins a couple of times. As a result, the current fins are substantially tougher than the original Turbos. They're also faster IMO.

Turbos can be made tougher yet, but at the expense of flexibility and shape (i.e. pushability and power). One must also consider that Turbos sweep a larger underwater area and can have higher tip speeds (upwards of 8 to 9 ft./sec), rendering them susceptible to more frequent and severe strikes. As with auto tires, you can have performance or durability, but you can't have it all in one package. Fortunately we have that choice, and for my application, Turbos win by a landslide!

In my experience one can get into some pretty bumpy areas with Turbos without damage by simply taking it easy:


With the current Turbos, most damage when sustained, consists of holes rather than splits and can be reset easily without patching, loss of performance or subsequent damage.


In any case, Jnoel's mishaps appear to be related to procedural ignorance, having nothing to do with defective fins.

the fins were put on one week earlier by a professional paddle shop that sale and services hobie kayaks. they were new!!! so my ignorance is not without standing, and if this is how ya'll talk to someone looking for help then i will let dead dogs be; and never speak of this company again. No hard feeling for the ones trying to help but the rest nothing needs to be said.
jnoel

People buy ST Turbo fins because they want to go faster. Turbo fins have more surface area and are subject to more pressure. Instead of beefing up the fin to take more pressure, what does Hobie do? As shown in your photo above, they make it significantly thinner than the standard fin. Duh... Why thinner when it should have been even thicker? I'm not worried about a little extra weight on a fin to make it stronger therefore less subjective to punctures and rips.

The emergency repair kit one carries while kayaking is entirely based on their level of adventure and independence. Some people pick up a paddle and off they go. If you have ever been on group paddles, you'll find people carrying a paddle float, PFD, phone, gps device and much more. Why, some people even carry duct tape in case they get a puncture in their kayak. Those items alone will cost more than $100 dollars, but they do provide a level of safety. You don't have to have any emergency gear/kit if you don't want to, and that includes a spare fin. I've put almost 1000 miles on my Hobie Adventure in 7 months without ever replacing a fin. I don't even carry a spare one.

Some people go out fishing with a pole, a few hooks, a bobber, and bait. Others go out with chests of lures and gear, live wells, ice box, half dozen poles and more. I think you get the point that what one spends on their hobby depends on their level of interest and use of the gear. Someone may have used the same hook for six months and yet another guy picks up the same pole and hook and immediately snags it on a submerged log and ends up losing the hook. Was it dumb luck or did the guy using the hook for 6 months know where the submerged log was?

If I took my friend's motorboat out, ran it into the shallows and bent the propeller on a submerged pipe, like you, I can't see spending $300 bucks for a new propeller every time I went out in a motorboat. Like you, I would just want to wait till they work the bugs out with the propeller before I buy one. Huh? People who operate motorboats learn where the deeper channels are very quickly. The same is necessary when it comes to using a pedal kayak - you have to know where the deeper channels are at all times or you are at risk for running aground and damaging the fins just as a motorboat operator can damage a propeller. If you are unsure of the waters, remove the drive unit and paddle. Hobie pedal kayaks are excellent for trolling if you know what you are doing.

Sorry if you misunderstood my comment. Based on your report, I believe the shop possibly improperly installed one fin. I also believe someone should have shown you how to recognize an improper Mirage Drive installation (which apparently tore the other fin off) -- it's easy to do and you couldn't have known the difference otherwise. Therefore, the problems you referred to sir, in my humble opinion, have nothing to do with defective parts, and everything to do with educating the dealer on proper installation and the user on proper use.
You should know that Hobie has an excellent warranty where they will replace any defective parts and workmanship at absolutely no cost to you. As for the emergency repair kit, I agree with Rnykster -- I've never felt the need for one in almost 10 years pedaling Hobie kayaks. Some people think they're great, but they are certainly not necessary.
I also might note that I don't work for Hobie or represent them in any way, so if you're somehow still offended by my comments, please don't blame the company and cheat yourself out of an excellent product on my account.

I certainly agree with the first part of your comments. While no expert in such matters, to the best of my knowledge, Turbofins have never broken from over pressurization, even at speeds much faster than any of us pedal. If you look at wing design, you'll note that faster airplanes use thinner air foils to achieve those higher speeds and much higher wing loading, whereas thicker wings are universally found in slower, high lift/drag aircraft. Likewise, if you look at propeller design, you'll see that the leading edge is quite thin for the sake of efficiency.

In addition to adding drag without lift, a fatter, stiffer leading edge would cause a fin to lose some of its twist or flex, a critical element in the Turbofin's ability to deliver torque. You can roughly simulate this by tightening your clew settings and see if it doesn't drop your efficiency down a bit. Maybe those Hobie engineers know what they're doing after all -- I'd hate to think those advanced degrees in nautical engineering went to waste -- especially the one from MIT!

Yep, and I want to get my 2 cents in here also. Nothing I said was intended to do anything but get you to thinking some about the situation you had. I also agree that the dealer set you up for failure. Improper installation and seating of the drive system accounted for most of the issue you suffered from. I understand your frustration but wanted to get it out there that Hobie wasn't the sum total of that failure. A lot of miles racked up in these things by some folks, including myself, and we like to keep everything up front and moving forward. These drive systems can certainly be broken. Easily if you're not careful. Try to get some good out of the comments that are made and you can be sure no one is trying to piss in your post toasties. This is a helpful bunch on here with lots of fun and experience and they're just wanting you to enjoy some of that too if you so choose.

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Yakkingaway
Portsmouth, VA

jnoel,
There was nothing in Roadrunners post that should have offended you. He was offering the same advice that the other experienced Hobie users posted in an effort to help you.
Your comments above show that you chose to ignore that advice insisting that the problem is with the drive.
From the information you have given I agree with the conclusion that it was improper servicing and operator error due to a lack of proper instruction in drive use.

I purchased a 09 Outback in September of 09 with turbo fins and have put many hours on them. We just got back from Whiskey Town lake in Ca and the morning we left I was out on the water at 6 am and did an estimate run of 10 miles and 5 miles against a strong head wind in 3 hours. Have done many a sprints and have yet experienced any problems.

My girl friend purchased an 2010 Outback in March with standard fins. Our first trip out was about 3 miles. I used it a couple of times to test the difference between the standard fins and my turbo fins and thought the standard fins were not bad. Our 2nd trip to the lake she was talking of turbo fin so I installed my turbo fins in her boat and her standard fins in mine. In the next minute or so I decided to do a sprint to show her that standard fin are not that much slower than my turbo's. After about 5 power strokes I mediately felt something went wrong and pulled the drive up to inspect and one fin was just about off.
Where the clevis pin goes through the fin was torn, another few strokes and I belive the fin would have dropped off.

The Hobie dealer near by had never seen this happen but replaced the fin even though we did not purchase the kayak from them.Then we purchased the ST fins which she is very happy with.

Fyi... This was a molding defect in the standard fin. The plastic flows around the hole and cooled too much before the two flows touched each other again.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

"procedural ignorance"

An affliction which I am well aware of on the oyster beds where the Redfish hide. Better described as "When Your Draft Exceeds Your Water's Depth You Are Most Assuredly Aground".

I patch my fins and straighten my pins weekly, fins are cheap compared to the SS four blade prop on my flats boat. You can have my Turbo Fins when you pry them from my poor dead hands. I'll get excited if Hobie takes them off the market. My only complaint is that I want bigger ones.

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I'm right 98% of the time. The other 3% I don't worry about.