want to buy some wings!

I have a '79 Hobie 18 that is also outfitted with Magnum wings. I am looking forward to participating in at least a few regattas this year and I know that Magnums are not raced as a class in my division so I have to remove the wings for racing. However I would still like to use the wings for my casual sailing. My wife and kids really enjoy them.

Two nuts at the wing hinge and I can remove the wings, but I am reluctant to remove the strut tabs bolted at the cross bar ends. I was hoping to come up with some sort of cover to protect the strut tabs in-place and protect the crew from being impaled.

I’m experimenting with cutting and slotting a lacrosse ball to go over each strut tabs. So far it seems to cover them well and I’m trying to get a nice fit.

I was wondering; Does anyone race your Hobie 18 Magnum (without wings)? Do you remove the strut tabs or cover them?
Do you have any suggestions?

_________________
John Latimer
'79 Hobie18 - Magnum
Sail#4854

We raced with the tabs in place. I wrapped them with yellow tape. Never had any incidents, but also never raced in any big air situations. I'd thought about wrapping them with foam pipe insulation.

_________________
Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

Back to the wing aurgument..... I have wings on my FXone, I think they're great, Sorry Trey, for me. The added weight isn't much. I think they're 18lbs a side so 36 total. But I'm right at minimum weight, so me and the wings probably don't weigh much more, if any, than the other people I'd be racing against. The FXone wings don't go quite as high as the SX/Mag wings do so there isn't as much of a hassle getting in off of the wire. John is right though, the higher you are from the level of the tramp, and the more the boat heals the less righting moment you have from being on the wing. The FXone wings are more like skiff wings. I've liked the wings on a 18sx I've been on a few times they're comfy and keep you dry (er).

I love my wings for sailing & cruising around. I keep a lot dryer thus extending my sailing season. That said, it is a lot easier to trap off the boat vs the wings. (my 2 cents).

If I were to race I would remove the wings and put them in my portable sail box (minivan) and remove the tabs. I know how crazy the racing can get and don't need any more cuts & bruises. (I haven't figured a good way to cover them up without being obtrusive).

_________________
1989 Hobie 18 Worlds Boat, Magnum Wings & Spinnaker
1987 Hobie Holder 20 #273

dale.vanlopik"at"att"dot"net

Just to chime in on a few points here about the wings.

From a simple physics stand point, it's pretty obvious that the wings give you more leverage by increasing righting moment. Thus they allow you to generate more power from the sails.

Someone menitioned that the wings raise you up vertically and thus the benefit of increased leverage is eliminated because of this. That's false. Righting moment is determined by one's horizontal distance from the fulcrum, in this case the leeward hull, not vertical height above the water.

As to why most modern boats don't use wings, probably partly due to the added complexity of wings, but mostly due to the that fact that many modern boats are built with the intention of fitting into a "box rule" class, i.e. F16, F18, etc. And these classes don't allow it. Also, the wings are probably looked at as an item that divides racing classes (hobie 18 case in point).

The wings definitely do add some weight, so that will slow you down slightly and obviously if you fly a hull to the point that you drag a wing, you will go very slow. However, since you trapeeze an additional foot or so higher, you can trap with your body more horizontal which is faster. The added time to tack is quite minimal, especially once you've gotten used to sailing with the wings. They add maybe 2 seconds to the tack.

Specifically, regarding the tabs on the 18 wing mounts, I've definitely seen people leave them on. If I had wings for my 18, I would almost certainly remove them when not using the wings, or at the very least cover them with some hefty padding. Unfortunately, I think those tabs are a poor design. I hate to think what would happen if someone was thrown into one or landed down on one. The idea of jamming a lacrosse ball onto them will probalby make it safer, but it may also be a catch point for jib lines.

sm

i raced with my wings off.I used hard rubber tubing to cover the tabs when the wings were off . if you pitch one with exposed tabs they can bite. also in smaller lakes or where you will be making alot of manovering the wings become combersome. if your distance sailing the wings are nice but i always likes trapping off the hull better than the wing.

_________________
Rich Vilvens
F-18 5150
[email protected]
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/f-185150sailing/

The leverage isn't eliminated, but it isn't as effective as when you are lower. Just like setting your trap height. Go as low as you can, wings or not. It's not just leverage at work, its also gravity. As the boat heals you are closer to the vertical axis of the pivot point and doing less to keep the boat from going over. The lower you are the longer you are away from the being on top of the fulcrum.

I made a drawing. It's even wrong in your favor. I added seats to the top of the wing so stickman is even farther from the centerline of the boat. Everything was cut/paste.


Stick man two is the same distance out but farther up. He's closer to the centerline of the boat when healed over. It may be exaggerated but it gets the point across.

You know, Karl, Hobie makes it pretty obvious what the SX wings are meant for, and they ain't just for leverage.

I agree 100% with your sketch. Being raised up, you will loose leverage more quickly (with regard to heel angle) than if you're on the same plane as the tramp. However, I interpereted the following statement:

"To get optimum "leverage" from double trapping, ideally you'll be on the same plane with the trampoline. Trapping on the wings moves you out, but also higher above the tramp"

as meaning that somehow being raised up would eliminate the benefit of being farther out.

I suppose I should add a clause to say that being raised up has no ill effect as long as you are sailing the boat flat. Since we were talking about sailing at optimum leverage for max efficiency, this would presume sailing flat or nearly flat. So, being up above the tramp wouldn't have a negative effect, it would in fact have the benefit of allowing the sailor to trapeze at horizontal (which can be difficult to do at tramp height).


sm

I wasn't trying to be a dick. Just trying to add to the pro-wing discussion.

BUT, you'll be able to keep the boat flatter for a longer period of time without having to depower than if you were raised up and still flat. Plus, the wing would impede proper sheet angle if you were trapped out flat (same plane as tramp, but higher).

Have any of you guys ever seen the trap system for the Yngling? Google that and then we'll have a discussion...it is crazy! I spent 2 hours (and $40 on beer) talking with Cary Howe, US Olympic Yngling sailor and Mischa Heemskerk (Dutch F18 sailor) about the Yngling system, and still barely grasped it at the end of the conversation. Freakin' monosluggers.

As to why wings aren't on modern boats, complexity can't have anything to do with it. Have you seen the tramp of an F18 or N20? There's complexity up the waaaaazoooooo!

Wings are great for cruising (and for Karl), but don't do jack for a performance boat. Let's not even talk about windage........

_________________
Trey Brown
www.velocitysailing.com
2006 N20 1017
1998 H16 102698
www.sunjammers.com ftw!

DO NOT remove the studs. They are absolute hell to get rethreaded properly.
I used golf balls drilled with a bit one size smaller than the studs and then just threaded them on the studs when sailing without the wings.

The nice thing is that when you do not have them installed on the studs they fit nicely in your hull bag, or you boat box and if they do get misplaced they are easy to replace.

all this talk about studs and balls, somewhere there has got to be a bad joke in this.

Stephen
H-18 SE

Your weight forces here are correct but what needs to be calculated is the torque force which is T=F(w)r, so even though you are higher out of the water you are further away from the moment (healing point) of the boat. it would be equivalent to having a longer wing with no raise off the water.
Just clarifying your picture a little bit. ill do a picture and some calculations when i have some time later.
Tom

P.S. And you need to do your weight forces from the center of mass of the person not off the end of the wing.

>>DO NOT remove the studs. They are absolute hell to get rethreaded properly.
>>>I used golf balls drilled with a bit one size smaller than the studs and then just threaded them on the studs when sailing without the wings.


I think what he was refering to is the stainless steel tabs that mount to the outboard end of the crossbars. Basically about a 2" x 3/4" tab that mounts to the crossbar bolt and sticks almost straight up. They're fine when the wings are mounted to the boat, but if you sail with out the wings and leave the tabs attached, there's basically four little spears sticking out to impale youself with.

sm