pump required ?

Im waiting for my TI to be delivered. I know a spong below deck is a good idea, but should I have a pump as well ?

Ok, Ill get the pump..., and sponge...
Max

If you swamp the hull from having a hatch open... a pump would be a good idea.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

You may want to speak to tidalwave who has installed a bilge in his ai..

.

_________________

Any AI or TI should have a means to manually remove unwanted water from inside the hull. Even with an electric pump installed, many things can cause it to stop working. I wouldn't go out without a hand bilge pump. At least one per group. With now 4 AI's and a TI on order, I just ordered a second hand bilge pump as a backup.

_________________

Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

I think a pump is a very good idea, actually no, it is essential!
I just wrote something about that topic here:
http://yakass.net/articles/90-safety/319-electrical-bilge-pump-for-a-hobie-adventure-island
I will not go without one anymore!

reconlon , could you possibly post a pic of your hand pump , so i'll know what i'm looking for .
i'm having a water in hull problem ,

Houston, Hopefully your new TI will be a "dry" boat and a sponge will remove the cup or less of water after a day out. But, dry boat or not, you can screw up by leaving a hatch open or partly open--then you are going to have a lot of water in your boat and a pump will come in handy.

Good luck!

jibsail--here is a typical hand pump. This picture is from West Marine, but these pumps can be obtained at any kayak shop or on-line.


How much water are you getting in your boat? What conditions? Leaking boats are a pet peeve of mine--see my many posts on the subject. My wife's new boat hardly leaks--less than a cup a day in rough conditions. My 2007 boat takes on less than a quart under similar conditions--but, it does leak some. I blame it on the T-n-S hatch covers.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I have small plastic manual (hand) bilge pump which I keep in the bilge with a bungee cord attached to keep it from shifting; along with my small electric pump. One time I went out without double checking the front hatch...I began to plow through some really steep chop and was buried up to my waist multiple times. I hadn't installed my wave shield yet.
I finally got into protected water and opened my cockpit hatch and saw quite a bit of water in the bilge. I couldn't figure out why there was so much water until I looked at the bow hatch and noticed I had twisted the seal.
After landing, I realized that if I had had a real problem, there was no way I could have opened the hatch to get the hand pump out without dumping water down the hatch.
I am not coordinated enough to try to open the hatch, unhook the hand pump, get it out,
and reseal the hatch without getting a lot more water into the hull. And to use the hand pump I would have to leave the cockpit hatch open, which would have meant water draining down into the bilge.
My next idea was to try to figure out how to run a hose through the deck from the bilge to
a fitting on the hand pump. I didn't want the hand pump and its hose staying in the cockpit between my legs or lying on the back deck. I went out and bought a small electric bilge pump. I had a small lead-battery. I found that it fit perfectly in the hatch bucket. I installed the pump on the bilge floor with a flexible hose to a 90 degree fitting.
The electric bilge pump is automatic so it doesn't run unless there is a small amount of water touching the pump. I ran a garden hose into the hull and ran it full stream. The bilge pump came on and kept up with the water I was dumping into the AI!
Since installing the pump, it has generally not been needed, but several times plowing through chop, it has come on. I don't have to worry about checking the amount of water in the hull plus I feel more comfortable not to need to have the hatch open while I am trying to pump out any water.
I have been sailing for forty years and my philosophy has always been 'suspenders and a belt'. So I have both the electric and hand pumps aboard...if the automatic pump doesn't work, at least I have the hand pump as a back up.

Chekika , my boat is 2007 as well , on my last outing in rough chop , waves over the bow into the cockpit , couldn't see where i was going for the spray even with sunglasses on , at the end of the day there was about 6 litres in the hull , i wasn't happy with that .
i keep my hatch openings clean , the o rings seated properley , lubed and every screw tightened .
anyway i've found a hand pump in the 'Bias' marine shop catalogue 30 litres/min ...$29.95 , i'll pick one up before my next trip .
thanks for the pic .

jibsail,

Sounds like you are doing things right. I’m curious, if you are running downwind most of the day, do you still have a lot of water in your hull? Generally, I find that I get very little water in my hull when running down wind. I think there is a reason for that, but I’m curious what your experience is.

It basically comes down to a few salient points:

(1) The front hatch is well designed (it has to be—this boat is a diver, so the front hatch is frequently under water.) It has 5 features to prevent leaking: it is one of the highest points on the hull, the hatch is designed to shed water, it has a moat around the opening to help run off, and it has 2 independent rubber seals. If the 2 rubber seals are functioning properly, it should be tight.

(2) There are 80-100 holes through the hull. If these are for factory hardware, the screws and nuts/bolts all need to be tightened. If necessary, put some marine goop in them for a good seal. If you have put some holes in the hull, these need to be waterproofed w/ goop.

(3) The rudder line holes are well-designed and probably do not leak. The rudder housing and attachment to hull will not cause leakage into the hull--unless something is broken.

(4) IMO, the most serious potential for leaks are the two "twist-n-seal" hatch covers. They are level and not designed to shed water. They only have one feature to protect them from leaking: the rubber-like, sealing ring. It is very easy for the ring to get twisted (it may take a close inspection to see the twist.) If that happens, serious water gets into the hull in any kind of waves. The longer you are on the water, the more water in hull. Very simple. These seals need to be cleaned before each outing and lubricated with silicon grease regularly. Silicon grease can be obtained at Home Depot or any plumbing store. If the O-ring fits rather sloppily, get a new one. Again, lube it with silicone grease. If the O-ring and opening are clean, the hatch should close nicely, but always give it a downward push to help it seat as tight as possible.

(5) If you have really large amounts of water in the hull (>12 liters), you need to check for cracks in the hull. Cracks occasionally occur in the Mirage drive well area and the 4 thimble-like seat plug holes. Kayaking Bob (Reconlon) has suggested re-enforcing the seat-plug holes by gluing a ¾” pvc cap on each from inside the boat. I’ve done that on each of my boats using a little bit of Gorilla glue. Turn the boat over to apply the caps.

I used to get a gallon or more water in my 2007 boat, but after tightening everything and paying a lot of attention to the TnS hatch openings, I've got it down to less than a quart. I still think it is the TnS hatch covers that are the problem.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Beyond any hatch o-ring leakages, I found that bungee cords that run into the hull or amas do leak when submarining! Most of the fittings are actually screw-in. I bought a fittings 'key?' when I bought my AI. I carefully unscrewed each and applied a little GOOP where the bungee goes through the fitting. I have not noticed any significant leakage from the fittings I GOOPed. I like GOOP because when dry it is slightly elastic and gives when the bungee cords stretch...and if I have to replace the bungee, it is easy to pull the GOOP out.

I often bury my amas when heeled and originally I found quit a bit of water sloshing in them
when I hauled out. There are no hatches on the amas to leak...and there were no cracks in them either. So I knew that the water had to be coming in through the bungee fittings when I buried the amas. By putting GOOP on the fittings...I have had no noticeable water in the amas. Which is why I proceeded to goop up every fitting on the hull I could reach (without sealing any openings that needed to be free).

All of the screw-in plastic fitting should be non-penetrating into the hull or Ama. When you unscrew them, you should see a molded cup, not a hole (unless yours are damaged).

The only penetration into the ama, should be the drain.

The penetrations on the AI's (front to back):

the front hatch and screw (each side) for the bungee clip,
the forward sheetline pulley
and the internal pulley on the other side,
the mast cup hole,
the up/down pulls,
the down-line cleat screws,
the pocket screws (each side),
the center hatch,
tiller (rudder handle),
(old AI's) the old up/down lever location,
the 2 bolts on the plastic padeye guiding the sheetline,
the back hatch including the 2 screws at 3 & 9 o'clock,
the drain hole,
and the 4 rudder tube assemblies.

Other than that, any added attachments.

Did I miss any others?

_________________

Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

I think you have them all, Kayaking Bob. But, tell me, don't the 8 screws around each TnS hatch flange go through the hull? You mention only the back hatch 3 and 9 o'clock screws.

Titalwave, when I read your comment about caulking the bungee connections, it reminded me that I did the same, only to find those fittings do not penetrate into the hull as Bob says.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I did forget the tiller (rudder handle),
and the drain hole.

I'll double check, but I'm pretty sure only 2 screws of only the rear hatch are bolts (holding the rudder lines). All the others screw into the bottom base-plate of the hatch assembly and sealed with a gasket. They all actually do go through the hull, but with the gasket and back plate, they don't leak if loose. Only the hatch assembly itself might leak.

I go down the list on each AI 2-3 times a year when testing for leaks using a vacuum's exhaust into the drain hole, and soapy water. Watch for bubbles!

_________________

Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

I have a 2007 and noticed water in the hull after an hour of sailing. So I dried the boat out and ran a garden hose over all suspect areas. Nothing, not a drop--- untill I ran the hose over the exits of the rudder line holes. Looking inside the hull I could watch the tubes siphoning water into the hull. The fix was to do the upgrade to the pull up and down rudder lines. The tubes that come with them have an internal "check-valve" which stops the flow of water. The stock 07 tubes don't have the check valve. When doing the up grade don't take the easy way out and leave the old tubes. Speaking of water, I've been using Bob's spray skirts for a year now and I highly recommend them. I couldn't wait for the nice hobie balls so I just used 1/4 inch bolts with a couple of nuts screwed on. It ain't pretty but does the job. The outside of the skirt is tied to a ball bungie which hooks around the aka "little post protrubance" which just pops on and off for folding in the amas.

_________________
DougDNer