My new Hobie Revo hull warped!

I received the boat in April - 3 months ago. It has been stored just like the OK T13A before it, in a closed garage resting on a large Wheelez cart without straps nor bungees supporting only its own weight. The cart cross members do not correspond to the location of the warp. It has been carried only a few times on a truck rack with Thule Glide & Set carriers. The rear "glide" pads of the carrier are astern of the warp, and I moved the "glide" pads on the carrier very far apart until they ride on the curve of the hull because the plastic of the bottom of the hull was so thin and flexed so much I found it alarming.

The weather here in WA state has not been warm. It has been unseasonably cold since I received the boat.

Hobie Cat brushed me off and said to deal with my retail vendor, ACK, and I have started the process. Has anyone else experienced this? Links to photos:

http://www.demonick.com/kayak/Stern.Hul ... r.1024.jpg
http://www.demonick.com/kayak/Stern.Hul ... e.1024.jpg

I would not say we "brushed this off"... We always refer consumers to their dealer for any issues after the sale.

From the photos I'd say this is not a molding defect. By the looks of it, it has been compressed by something.

Fyi... we do not recommend leaving a kayak on a cart for storage. The manual outlines proper storage.

You may be able to push this out. Using a towel drapped over the area and hot water. Then some pressure from the inside.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I store my boats upside down on the rails, as per Hobie recommendations and have have had no problems, even in hot weather. I have noticed, however, that any extended storage right side up will create a flat spot or dent on the bottom, whether on the ground or (especially) on a cart. Unsupported areas (between rigid vertical structure such as scuppers or drivewell) are particularly susceptible.

I think you can reverse some or most of this by using Matt's recommendation, or by resting the boat bottom side up in the hot sun (if you have any), along with temporary internal pressure such as styrofoam blocks to gradually bring this out. You should have good access through the nearby 8" hatch. Perhaps something like this:


You might also have your dealer inspect the hull to see if the bottom is unusually thin in that area.

I am finding the acceptance of this defect rather disturbing, and it is not just here but on other kayaking forums too. The defect may not be in manufacturing. It may be the design - the hull is too thin. Somehow Hobie and other plastic boat manufacturers have convinced the marketplace this sort of failure is acceptable. I don't agree. No one buys a Hobie Mirage Revolution because it weighs 58 pounds rather than 62 pounds. They buy it for the superb engineering and performance of the mirage drive. A few more pounds of plastic would only make the product better.

I have led a customer support group for a couple of decades. I have dealt with a lot of vendors, a lot of products, and a lot of customers. When we work in any industry or market space we gain experience in the industry which translates into knowledgeable expectations. That is, experienced customers have a much narrower range of potential behaviors and a narrower range of expectations. While it is important for a product to meet the expectations of experienced customers, it is as important or more important to meet the reasonable expectations/assumptions of naive customers. This is because most of a product's potential market share and product sales growth comes from customers with no experience. A product's future is in its heretofore "naive" customers. This is the definition of "expanding the marketplace".

"Reasonable" is often hard to define, but like pornography, one can generally recognize it when one sees it. Should a consumer class laptop computer be hardened against being run over by a vehicle? While people do run over their laptops, most people would not expect a consumer level laptop to survive such treatment. What about dropping? It would probably depend on from how high. Off a coffee-table and onto a carpet? Absolutely. Off the top of a moving car? No so much. I think it is reasonable to expect a consumer class laptop to survive a 3 foot fall onto a carpet. Certainly if the laptop was damaged in such a fall I would be annoyed. On the other hand if it slipped out of my hand and landed on concrete and sustained major damage, I would feel responsible.

As a relatively naive customer I expect a plastic kayak, under reasonable storage conditions (covered and cool) to not deform. I suggest Hobie add a few pounds of plastic to the bottom of the hull of their Revo, astern of the live well scuppers.

I would have to say that most consumers are interested in the product being light as possible, so adding weight to accomodate storage in a way that we advise against... doesn't make sense to me.

We clearly advise in our manual against storage on a cart or laying on the bottom. We advise to store on their sides or upside down on the hard rails. This is because we know what happens when you point load the soft underbelly of a hull for a period of time. This is the "nature of the beast" with rotomolded plastics.

Please attempt the suggested corrections or contact your dealer for assistance. Then store the kayak as described in the manual to aviod future issues of this kind.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

My point was missed.

I am questioning the assumption that most of your potential new consumers, the naive, non-experienced potential customers are committed to "the product being as light as possible". My point was these customers do not care about the marginal added weight required to reinforce the admittedly "soft underbelly of a hull". Personally, I would gladly welcome 3 extra pounds of weight so that storing the Revo laying on a cart in a cool garage would not risk the structural integrity of the boat.

It would take more than 3lbs - the issue is not that small, large flat surfaces don't get the thickness you get in ridges and deck shapes - due to the way plastic flows inside the mold during the cooking process. This is not as simple a fix as I think that you imagine it being.

As long as the kayak gets stored as prescribed in our literature - its never an issue.

This hull looks to me as though it would be a pretty straight forward reversal - just using boiling hot water and air pressure - I've personally fixed hulls that were way more severely dented (caused by a number of reasons, not just from storing them right-side-up on their bottoms) and had very good results. The end look of the hull will be again a 1st quality. I travel a fair bit to shows - and I'll arrive sometimes to a shipment of kayak hulls that were dented due to load shift in the truck - and I've always gotten them to be good to put on display and ultimately sell as a new product without any ill effect.

I'd be more than happy to help with your repair attempt off the board directly - feel free to e mail me (contact details are below)

We're all committed to helping you get back out on the water - helping customer resolve issues is what we do here - so let us help you, like to get you back out enjoying your kayak and off the computer, because it's summer time!!!!

If this is such a common occurrence, why can no one entertain the thought that it is a design deficiency?

It's only a design deficiency if it doesn't do what it's designed to do. Incorrect storage of a hull isn't what it's designed to do.

Your problem just doesn't happen often enough for Hobie to change their way of making boats. It's unfortunate, but true.

_________________

Based on the response so far, this doesn't appear to be a very common occurrance. Nevertheless, lets look at a couple of analogies. Like the hood of a car, or an airplane wing, the bottom of a boat hull is not designed to support a high point load. If you sit on your car hood and dent it, would you consider it a design defect? If you walk on an airplane wing and put your foot through it, would that be a design defect? Of course not.

Airplanes, cars and boats all have high loading zones, but not on all surfaces. The hull bottom design priority is to support the boat in the water, not land. The cockpit rails, on the other hand, are designed with sufficient rigidity to support passengers, cargo and the weight of the boat safely when it is not in the water.

Like a pick-up truck bed or an "I" beam girder, much strength of a boat comes from form or shape, not thickness. If you were to view a cutaway cross section of a Hobie kayak, you would would find the bottom thickness about the same as the cockpit rails The difference in shape is the difference in strength. You could add 10 lb. of plastic to the bottom of the boat and still not get the rigidity you're seeking. So why lug the extra 10 lbs around, adding needless expense and weight, while taking away performance and transportability?

Aside from volume and shape demands, the plastic resources that go into a boat are prioritized. For instance, the drivewell is a high stress area that must be reinforced. There are many brass plugs and inserts must be anchored. Extra material is pulled into these areas so that they don't fail. But there is no need to add more rigidity to the bottom than the water requires.

Hobie makes no assumptions about your boat design knowledge. They make specific recommendations about how to safely use, handle and store their products. They can't make owners read the manual, but to ignore it is at your own risk and generally not considered a design defect. Regardless, you can see they are more than willing to help you correct the problem and get the maximum enjoyment out of your boat.

Good analogies. But structure of hoods are not as public as you would think. Both my truck and wife's SUV have suffered from others clamoring about on the hood. I know not to climb on the hood but others don't seem to be that smart.
Guess that is why aircraft wings are covered with "no step".
Perhaps we need to have "no rest" on the bottom of our kayaks.
Not meaning to casts stones just rather funny about the hoods.

_________________

Dang Looks like an elephant sat on the hull.

One way to add strength to a hull is to fill sections of it with some kind of expanding structural foam. Or wedge in styrofoam blocks and leave them in place.

The foam would reduce usability of storage inside the kayak but would provide safety flotation should you get a hole below the waterline.

This looks like what I did to one of my Sports....when I tried to pull my wife up onto the dock with her sitting in the boat. Scratches started the same place....shaped the same, including the little gouges outboard (and it's yellow, as well)....boy, was I embarrassed.

I got it straightened out pretty good with sun and wedging....still has a little dent but doesn't affect the performance.

My bad....as the kids say!!

Interesting responses to my problem at other forums:

http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/in ... 766.0.html

http://forum.aquahunters.com/index.php?topic=4220.0

We have a great reputation about covering defect issues with warranty, so many of the guys will think (if its a warranty issue) we will take care of it, but this hull is not defective due to materials or workmanship. This has been dented by something. It can not deform like this for any other reason. This being the case... it's not a warranty issue. Once again, try the corrections that we have outlined in this thread to pop it back out.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)