A story, and alot of questions

Caution - this may get long, but I hope you'll get a laugh out of it. A small note - I'm new to Hobie's after learning to sail in daysailors. Given my luck and summer winds, I've never sailed in the Hobie in anything more than 10 mph.

I wake up early and get out on the water after a cold front has passed thru the night before, and is continuing to hang on. Should be a nice windy (and cloudy and cold) day. I rig and launch and I'm not disappointed. Myself and 2 crew on a Hobie 18 are attempting to sail 9 miles 1 way to one of the lake erie islands. I had alloted up to 4 hours for each way, so as to not have to worry about darkness or light winds, etc. After dodging boats in the channel for awhile, we fly past all the big sailing yachts, and for a moment I'm happy I don't own the 40 ft monohull. Out on the lake, the wind increases to 20+ mph, and waves are now 4-6 feet. The 18 is performing amazingly, although it's throwing huge amounts of water up onto the tramp soaking us all. As we bear down on the island, the crew begins to complain of the cold and asks to turn back. Now here's where it all goes downhill.

Recently I had replaced all the tramp rope with new tramp rope and got it nice and tight. I didn't want to fall thru, or live with the saggy tramp, and given the rope condition I wasn't going to tighten that old rope Now back to our story where we find that indeed the worst has happened and the tramp rope has broken near the traveler. I take a bungy and bungy it to hopefully prevent further damage and turn the boat around. I should also mention we realized we had no money, so we couldn't land on the island and take a ferry back - we had to sail it back. Now cold and wet with no sun, and a sagging tramp, we turn around and begin the sail back. As we approach the bay entrance, black clouds roll thru, and now the wind is pushing 30 mph. There is alot of white caps, and waves have built a bit. Even with 3, I'm concerned about flipping, so I attempt to furl the jib. Turning into the wind, we pull the line and the jib begins to thrash violently. So much for the ability to depower in high winds I think. After several attempts, I unfurl the jib and find I'm unable to get out of the irons. I employ a crew to pop the port side hatch and use a little paddle power to help. I'm not sure his paddling, or my attempts at finesse and backwards sailing worked but we got round and went off sailing. Fortunately, the clouds passed quickly and the wind settled back to 20 mph or so. Now finally approaching the narrow channel entrance, I realize the wind has shifted in our face, making some long tacks necessary. I console myself with that comforting thought of getting back inside the semi-protected bay and push on. Wanting to tack well, I wait until we are very close to a breakwall before attempting to tack. Rats! I can't get the boat to tack, and wished I had worked on tacking this boat more. Now in the irons again, we are being pushed by wind and current into the breakwall. After another failed attempt, hitting the wall is inevitable. Despite my crews cries, I leap from the boat and brace myself between it and the rocks. Swimming round the boat, I push the hull and point it back off the wind. I'm screaming at my crew now to man the tiller and sails, and next thing I know the boat is off to the races sailing itself on a reach. In a flash the hull has gone by and a throw my hand on a rudder. Blinking I find myself body surfing and screaming at the crew to turn the boat into the wind. They went the wrong way, and wow - i felt the power and my hand slipping. Realizing there mistake, they managed to slow the boat and haul me aboard. I mentally note my crew's inability, and determine not to become a statistic of so many skippers whose crew couldn't do a MOB drill when his own life depended on it. Back aboard, we still have the problem of sailing upwind into a busy narrow channel, and I can't tack the boat. I decide to make some pratice attempts in open water, and finally realize I can tack the boat, if I take it the long way around slowly. I will draw a picture below as to what I mean. The lower image shows what I mean.

[img=http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2753/tack.th.png]


Given the small success of a tack without stopping or losing all my speed, I turn back towards the channel and am able to point well enough to get into it. The tack comes up, and I find myself unable yet again to tack and instead I'm blown towards a lee shore. Arggh. This sailing upwind was getting old. Finally a couple of long tacks later, we're in the bay with some room to maneuver and we all relax a little. We can see our landing site now, and the boat is picking up speed again. I pull a crew member and have him hike out as our port hull is dipping underwater quite a bit. We flatten out and continue sailing, but the problem keeps coming back. Finally, the hull goes under and stays. The next thing I know I'm in the air and being thrown from the boat. Guess it's time for our first righting drill. Having read what to do, I shout instructions to my crew who are a bit shocked and cold. I furl the jib and wonder how this happened. Looking at the boat, it's sticking out of the water at a 30 degree angle and I realize what happened. I'd left the hull access hatch open and flooded the hull. It'd been taking on water for 20 mins now. And exponentially more in the last 2 mins. By now my crew have flagged down a powerboat, grabbed the cooler and boarded a floating vessel. Thankfully they are safe. I'm standing on the hull, noting that at least my mast must be sealed, because it's not sinking. Unwilling to leave the boat, I attempt to right it anyway, with no luck. The powerboater sees my determination to not leave the boat, and so offers a tow. We manage to spot a very small spit of beach between the rocks about 100 yards away. I tie the tow cable to the righting line and instruct the boater to beach the boat. We are unable to flip it even with power and so begin towing. As the water gets shallow, the boat finally allows us to right her and we beach the boat, but are unable to really move it out of the water because of the flooded hull. Leaving the boat like that was hard, but fortunately boats could be replaced - we could not.

For the sake of time, it's here I will end the story. We all were picked up safely and brought back to shore. I got sick from the cold and swallowing a little water. The crew faired slightly better. After drying off, we spent 3 hours retrieving the boat. The boat is missing a drain plug and a few other small parts and had to be completely dismantled to get it off the beach. Let's just say I love beach wheels. We had to wheel it 1/4 mile up the beach, through overgrowth and over a breakwall to get it to the trailer. It would still be there if not for the wheels. It's home now and safe.

Now as to the questions. First of all - a warning to anyone. Don't sail with your access hatches open! I hadn't ever heard or seen of such a thing, but the boat is essentially unrightable if you flood a hull it seems.

1) How in the world should I be tacking this? I realize I've been wrong, and trying to "push" it thru the wind like a monohull doesn't work in a strong breeze. The wind wins.
2) I have an older tramp with 4 parts tied by lacing. I've seen the newer 1 piece tramps and the mesh tramps, etc. Barring adding wings, is there a way to stay drier on the Hobie?
3) How does one furl the jib in high winds - and how could you compensate for the lost ability to point? I mean if it's high winds, and you have to go upwind, seems like your better off with the jib.

Ohh, I guess I should add that the trip was the most fun I had on the boat all summer (well the first part anyway ), and that I'm grateful for the "cheap" lessons. I'll be sticking to more protected waters for the remainder of the season practicing boat handling - with myself and even more importantly my crew.

_________________
Is the power of 2 hulls with you?
"Rainbow Flyer" - '86 Hobie Cat 18

don't take my comments personally.. they are meant to exemplify the seriousness of this situation, not a personal attack on you as a person....

For starters... you are lucky to be alive!
IMHO you were way out of your skill level, and should never attempt such a trip without a chase boat.. in such conditions. Your even luckier you didn't kill your crew.

turning around the "long way" is called a jybe (jibe), and the higher the wind, the riskier it is.. it can be tricky but for me..i keep my speed up... and gently turn through the wind. i guide my blocks by hand across to the far beam end. this skill should be mastered in more favorable conditions.

the trick is fall off enough to gain speed... preferable the speed of the wind.. then when you gybe.. you feather off the tiller a little and help move the mainsheet/blocks accross the beam/travler.

1) How in the world should I be tacking this? I realize I've been wrong, and trying to "push" it thru the wind like a monohull doesn't work in a strong breeze. The wind wins.

you must keep your speed up and weight back enough to keep the bows from "digging in". Also you can keep your jib cleated (or held) well past the 1/2 way through the tack (when the boom moves sides) this will backwind or push your bows around more...

2) I have an older tramp with 4 parts tied by lacing. I've seen the newer 1 piece tramps and the mesh tramps, etc. Barring adding wings, is there a way to stay drier on the Hobie?

I dont think there are 1 piece tramps for an h18 (that i ever saw). i could be wrong, but how could you tighten a 1 piece? it must be at least 2 ,... regardless, there is not alot you can do to make your boat drier (except keep the old fake leather tramp.. but i wouldn't, the mesh makes it much easier to right as it doesn't hold air like a sail does).. BUT you could create a spray guard on your front beam.. with plastic, or similar.. but i wouldn't want to hit it with my head in a pitch pole. I would not recommend it at all... you could also glue? chines on the hulls to help push water away.. BUT I WOULDN'T


3) How does one furl the jib in high winds - and how could you compensate for the lost ability to point? I mean if it's high winds, and you have to go upwind, seems like your better off with the jib.

you pull it hard... point dead into the wind... and pull. it will not furl pretty..it will be mis-shaped, wrinkled and might even cause some damage.. but if its blowing 30 and your saving life's ... who cares about a jib.

Yes you lose some pointing and some control but if its blowing 30 and your saving life's ... ...

to tack without a jib takes practice on an h18. i usually ended up reversing the cat to tack (or do a jybe).. I reverse it by back winding the main and pushing the rudders to windward.. this should make you backup and you can tack it after you start to move backwards... takes practice

i have been a little hard on you.... it would be different if you were in a tropical area and a storm popped up out of no where...
you were negligent in taking crew out for a long sail, out a protected area, without backup when you knew there was a storm front around. you were above your skill level and risked their life.

Your captains card should be suspended until you take a boater safety course...

I agree with Andrew for the most part but here's my 2 cents. You definately need to gain some more experience before venturing offshore especially with in-experienced crew although, you did gain quite a bit of experience from this adventure. Unfortunately, you've probably lost two crew members after that catastrophy!

Tacking the boat - you definately need to backwind the jib to pull the bow around through the wind as Andrew mentioned. Unlike on a monohull where you release the jib sheet at the same time as you start your tack, this will almost never work on a beachcat. Start your tack, let the wind catch the backside of the jib and pull the bow through the wind before you uncleat and trim the opposite side sheet.

Furling the jib - IMHO the jib is far more easily furled from a deep broad reach instead of pointed into the wind. This allows the main to blanket the jib a bit and will prevent the mad flogging of the sail while trying to furl it if pointed into the wind. Put the boat into a deep broad reach, start easing the jib sheet and at the same time furl it while feeding out the sheet. Do it as quick as possible. The other advantage to furling the jib this way is that you won't get stuck in irons after the jib is furled.

Tacking the boat with the jib furled - I agree with Andrew. This can be very challenging but can be done with pratice. Practice in more favorable conditions than what you were in during this adventure. If all else fails you can jybe the boat onto the new tack which will cause you to loose some ground but will get the job done.

One piece tramps - there is such an aftermarket animal made for the 18 but I wouldn't own one. As Andrew mentioned, I'm not sure how you would be able to tighten the tramp sufficiently. You mentioned a four piece tramp, never heard of that one! The stock Hobie tramp is a 3-piece tramp. The two main pieces attached to the hulls and the front crossbar (laced together) and the rear strip attached to the rear crossbar and laced to the main pieces. I have the OEM mesh tramp on my boat and love it!

Ways to stay dryer on the boat - Fork out the money for a good drysuit or at a minimum, a long john wetsuit with a good windtop! They are worth their weight in gold. Don't forget your crew either. Wings definately keep you higher off the tramp and tend to keep you a bit dryer.....I love my wings! Part of the fun of sailing a Hobie is just that though.....the water flying over the hulls when the boat goes into overdrive!

I'm curious about the hull port cover? Are you saying you had your paddle stored in the hull or were you using your port cover as a paddle? At any rate, it's hard for me to believe you didn't notice the cover was off during all of this.....or was it lost overboard? Store your paddle/s bugeed to the tramp lacing instead of in the hulls.

Hope this helps and BE CAREFUL!

Tom
H18M

THEN YOU ARE A SMART MAN (just kidding)

COULD BE A 3 PEICE WITH A LINE CATCHER IN THE MIDDLE

I am pretty sure he had his paddle in the hull. Few paddles would fit in a 6" port so i am thinking he may have an actuall hatch (as i installed on my hull). If it is the hinge type.. it is very realistic to sail with it unsecured. i did about 10 times after i installed mine. I had to write Open and Closed in Sharpie on it to be able to tell from my tramp (its infront of my forward beam)

I agree with both of you. I was looking for adventure, and I wanted some "real" wind. With everything going so well until your 9 miles out, it seems like a good decision. Seems like everything (almost) that could have gone wrong after that did. I won't be repeating the trip for a long time. As for the tramp, lol, I said 4 piece but meant 3 It's a stock faux leather Hobie tramp. Sounds like I will go with the mesh when I replace it, given your responses.
Andrew hit the nail on the head, the bows slice the waves very nicely, I was impressed having been on a 16 and seen it bury the hulls so much (we had a VERY rough ride on the powerboat heading back to shore - bouncing up and down, had to go slow). But the water has to go somewhere, and if the wave is 6 ft, well, it slices up thru the center of the tramp, and over the front crossbar. Never seen that before. It really only affected the poor crew on the front of the tramp, not me. And of course, if it hadn't been 60 and cloudy, they may not have cared about getting so wet.
I have a couple wetsuits, which I hauled out of the box after I got back on shore. Stupid not to wear them. Will definitely do so next time.
Now, as for the port cover. Yes, I have the a class legal (for racing) paddle tied to the port cover. It's flimsy plastic and almost useless. I think you know what I'm talking about. I have 2 nice aluminum paddles that I typically take if I think wind would be an issue - didn't bring them with me. I'll take your advice and lash them to the tramp with bungies though. Good idea as they don't fit in the hulls anyway. So, anyways, since the paddle is attached to the port cover, the cover stayed off. Of course the crew only used the paddle for a minute - we simply didn't put it back after. I knew it was off, but was stupid enough to not realize the consequences of it being off. I'd never been out in waves breaking over the hulls like that.
As far as the crew goes, your right. I guess they knew much less than I thought. I had verbally told them how to do the MOB drill, how to steer, and set sails etc. But I guess they need even more sail time than I do as they were more unprepared than me. Yikes!
As far as tacking goes, I didn't have an issue until I got the heavier wind - though the tacks were HORRIBLE. I think I've been messing up by having the weight forward, and of course, having the crew release the jib too soon. Gybing let me keep the speed, although it was quite an experience whipping thru the wind like that. The boom comes fast, much less control.
Thanks for the help and advice. You can be sure I won't be straying too far from the dock on my subsequent outings.

_________________
Is the power of 2 hulls with you?
"Rainbow Flyer" - '86 Hobie Cat 18

Hmm - sounds like I'll have to get a picture of the paddle next time I'm at the boat.. Your right the paddle that fits in the hull is sliced thin - it's probably only 4 inces wide.

As far as your hatch, no I don't have anything but the standard "pop tops". I like the sharpie idea

_________________
Is the power of 2 hulls with you?
"Rainbow Flyer" - '86 Hobie Cat 18

on my h18 i drilled a few holes in the deck lid lip and put bungee accross the hulls (in an x shape) to hold my paddles...

you can ALMOST see them here...

1) To tack the boat, you want to backwind the jib to help pull the bows around - i.e., you don't release the jib from the "old" side until the bows are through the wind. Also learn how to reverse your rudders and do a "K-Turn" to get out of irons. You will likely need to do the K-Turn if you aren't using the jib.

2) A vinyl tramp may be a little drier than a mesh tramp as it doesn't let water through. Although it also means you may be sitting in a puddle.

3) It's easiest to furl the jib by heading downwind. This does two things: 1) it automatically reduces tension on the forestay which allows the furler to spin more easily. 2) It allows the jib to be blanketed by the mainsail which reduces flogging.

You should practice all these handling techniques until you are comfortable with the boat before heading out on long distance offshore trips. You were lucky.

Also, trying to paddle the boat will be futile in any wind over about 5 to 10 mph. There is way too much windage. You're much better off learning how to handle the boat properly so you can acutally sail it.

sm

1) How in the world should I be tacking this? I realize I've been wrong, and trying to "push" it thru the wind like a monohull doesn't work in a strong breeze. The wind wins.

- Everything everyone else said...plus don't cross the tramp until the boom crosses...just before the main starts to fill (look up roll tacking) ...and then don't waste time getting across...

2) I have an older tramp with 4 parts tied by lacing. I've seen the newer 1 piece tramps and the mesh tramps, etc. Barring adding wings, is there a way to stay drier on the Hobie?

- Add wings & live regret free! (disclaimer...I have an extra set available for sale)

Wings also let you get some weight out faster in heavy wind...great / necessary for inexperienced crew.


3) How does one furl the jib in high winds - and how could you compensate for the lost ability to point? I mean if it's high winds, and you have to go upwind, seems like your better off with the jib.

- Ease the mainsheet some (let a foot or two out, as measured between your blocks) before attempting to furl / unfurl. (takes some load off the forestay as mentioned previously)

- Maybe an expert would want to weigh in...but I feel the 18 points BETTER with a furled jib (velocity made good will suffer...but it seems to squeeze a little higher upwind)


BUT the most important thing:


See other posts on shroud anchor pins & check / replace yours...you might be lucky to have avoided a dismasting if you were engaged in violent jibes.

AND

Always pre-tension your rig to minimize shock loading of the rigging when changing tacks / jibing.

a few people have mentioned falling off and sheeting in the jib when going downwind to furl it. i agree this can work in moderate air.. but if you are overpowered (23 knots or so. and up) ... your not able to fall off and pull it in. If you fall off your cat will take off like a rocket.

i think 30 knots was mentioned.. in 30, you will need 2 hands, both feet and all you got to sheet in a jib in 30 knots.. pointing in any direction.

when the "storm" hits the fan... u gotta yank that mother in... and do everythin you can to keep the boat stable

How so? please explain your technique

Pretensioning is simple...rig the boat as ready to sail. Move the traveler out and tie it off to prevent it from returning to cener. Sheet in enough to slacken the shroud (side stay) and move it down a hole (or two). Repeat for the other side to even it up. Don't get everything so tight that the mast wants to over-rotate, though. Just nice & snug all around when the boat is just sitting, with a loose mainsheet. When detensioning, you will only need to do one side, to make it faster for next time.

If I were out in 30 knots of wind, I would have furled the jib LONG before the wind reached that strength if I were unable to make it back to shore in time. Having said that, if I were out in 30 knots and needed to furl, I would still do it at a very steep broad reach if not directly downwind. The apparent wind will be a LOT less at this point of sail and the tension will be off of the forestay for easier furling. When I say "deep broad reach" I do not mean a screaming reach. You have to be on a deep enough point of sail to reduce the apparent wind as much as possible. Once in this position you will be able to ease the jib sheet and furl it fairly easy. Any Hobie sailor with any experience knows that once you point the boat dead downwind, it slows down significantly.

Tom

In 30 knot winds

Pointing the boat downwind in this much wind sounds like a wild ride to me.

My initial thinking is, to furl the jib, head upwind and let the boat go into irons and furl jib. Decide which direction you want to go from there, push the boom and tiller that direction (the boat backs up with the bows now pointed that direction), center rudders, sheet in and go.

As srm stated, to tack upwind (without a jib) the "K"/"Y" turn is the trick, with my description of the operative part above.

I'd be very, very careful attempting an upwind tack by backwinding the jib. That much pressure can prevent you from uncleating the jib, and the boat will be blown over in a heartbeat.

Don't ask me how I know

_________________
Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

Hi Tom. you sound like you know what you are talking about here but...

"deep enough to reduce apparent wind... "
This is an advanced theory you are posting here... i bet 1/2 the people sailing dont understand apparent wind. Heck i have been sailing for over 30 years, cats for 10 and i barely understand it...

"Any Hobie sailor with any experience knows that once you point the boat dead downwind, it slows down significantly"
This sailor had experience... under 10 knots..


I stand by my experience that in 25-30.. I am not going to fall off to furl my jib ... to risky, to much else going on to have the presence of mind/ time, room, etc to fall off to furl.. i am gonna pull that line the best i can to get that sail area reduced.. and worry about wrinkles (and new underware) After the storm..