The 'bear away' at the top mark - then the gybe.

What sequence do others use at the top mark?
Depending on wind strength, as we round the mark, and bear off on a broad reach, I release the traveler about 6-18", check the mainsheet is in tight so it acts as a backstay, and move slightly towards the stern of the boat.
When we have settled down on the new course, the crew comes in off the wire, loosens downhaul and mast rotator, raises spin, I call 'up' when it is good, crew adjusts tackline, kneels on tramp facing forward, and sheets in the spin.
(Plus any minor adjustments to the jib). This is a VERY busy and complex sequence.

I steer, going 'hotter' to speed up, and more downwind when we begin to get overpowered.
If we get hit by a puff, my crew will release the spin as I turn downwind.
In an emergency, I will release the traveler all the way.

The sequence is the same if we run without spin.

Any other suggestions for this transition?

For the gybe, I turn more down wind, and facing backwards, sheet in traveler and main, call the turn so crew can release the jib sheet and spinsheet,
crew calls back when we are by the lee and the jib is flopping, complete the gybe, releasing the mainsheet cleat 'just in case' as I move across to the other side of the tramp. We settle down on the new course, adjust the traveler to 6 - 18" depending, and sheet in the main, spin and the jib appropriately.

In our fleet, we've had a number of capsizes during the gybe, which ended up as a big debate over beers and burgers after sailing...
how 'fast' do you need to go through the gybe? (Winds were 12 - 18 knots, some gusts to 25 knots).
I say skill over speed...

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

This has been a big topic the last few days while looking at the photos of the H18/H20 NACs last week in Avila. (Day 1)

http://photos.studio101west.com/nac2015 Day 1
(NOTE: Yes, that was me that flipped on the mark on the H20. My dagger caught the anchor line which was on the surface)

If you look through the photos you will see that the photographer was sitting at the "A" mark taking photos in 15-18 knot winds. Many techniques were used and captured on stills but one one thing was clear.......control of the boat in many situations was illusive. MANY BOATS WERE FULLY DEPOWERED BEFORE THE ROUNDING.

As winds came up folks tended to ease the traveler out well before the mark and thus "depowered the boat". The fastest way to round and the most profitable was to stay on the wire and harness 100% of the new reach (Often 4-7 boat lengths or more).
The pictures reveal risks of this maneuver including: Pitch Pole, difficulty maintaining balance, How to get in, How to depower once around, and excessive helm response.

Look at the sequence of pictures starting on pic #135 and watch the 17081 boat (Red/yellow/blue sail w/white Jib). Fun sequence

_________________
H18 '85
H18 '89 "Knotty Passion"
H20 '96 "20/20 Vision"
Fleet 259 Central Coast California

pretty much what you described John.
bleeding down prior to the gybe, then coming up to proper course for the conditions.

there's a technique you can practice if a quick gybe set is needed at the top mark:
the ZAMBUCA is a spin hoist that starts the raise of the spin on the port side and hauls it around to starboard as you are effecting the gybe. it is a great tactic to decoy close by competition.

search online for a 'Zambuca hoist'

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

One thing I always try to emphasize to myself and crew during the A mark rounding is to sail the boat through the turn and onto the new course before messing with other things. Often when rounding A mark, the immediate instict is to pop the rudder, pull the boards, dump the downhaul & rotator. The problem is that while you're fiddling around with all of these tasks, you're not watching where you're going and you're not paying attention to the boats or wind around you. You can often make up ground on boats ahead of you if you focus on keeping the sails trimmed, making a smooth course transition and getting the boat up to speed on the new heading before you mess with the minor adjustments. I always try to emphasize to my crew to keep the jib flying through the turn. You don't want to just dump sheets. You want to keep the sails flowing as you turn.

One comment about catching the mark's anchor rode on your dagger board/rudder. One thing to keep in mind is that the marks always blow downwind from the anchor line. Therefore, it is prudent to leave some space between your boat and the weather mark when rounding. However at the leeward mark, you can round tight without risking catching the anchor line.

sm

Good advice all, thank you.

Three times in the last two years, I've beaten Tornado's and F18's because they caught a rudder or a board in the anchor line of a mark.

And last week, we came in 1st both over the line and on handicap as they all capsized during the gybe on the final downwind run, 15 k gusting 24k, moderate chop.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

John, I use the exact sequence described in the first post and have not capsized in a race at A Mark since 2011 - and that capsize was in winds measured at 27+, so I don't feel too bad.

I also second srm's advice about making minor adjustments after a clear rounding.

sorry, i don't race but noticed this in the OP's post when on a broad reach:

In an emergency, I will release the traveler all the way.

When running I have the mainsheet loose and the traveler all the way out (no spinnaker). I would have thought releasing the traveler would have just added more power and risked a pitchpole. Could someone explain?

Thanks!

Mespig, if you have a good sized library near you, look for a book by Dr Frank Bethwaite called HPS II
aka Higher Performance Sailing II. This is a good 'winter' read, as it is over 1,000 pages of highly technical stuff explained in a very clear way by an aeronautical engineer. His three children were either Australian or World Champion sailors. His son recreated the world of 18 Skiff sailing in Australia, and together, they enabled what is 29'er and 49'er sailing today. (Go to YouTube and enter 18 Skiff videos and hang onto your seat).
If there is no library, try Amazon or Kajiji or whatever.

see:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDIQFjADahUKEwjduZS6tLjHAhUFnIAKHdRAAHo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goodreads.com%2Fbook%2Fshow%2F3433868-high-performance-sailing&ei=ayzWVZ3YBYW4ggTUgYHQBw&usg=AFQjCNEBUitrie81X8Zng6sRQ3-gROoOcw

What you will learn is that it is all about apparent wind.
In cats, if you can keep the apparent wind 'forward', you will fly.
Bethwaite and others explain it better than I can, plus after 20+ years of cat sailing, I am still learning how to perfect this.

Your style is to let the traveler all the way out when running downwind, and we don't because we're always searching for the best apparent wind.
We release the traveler all the way out to relieve the pressure on the main and de-power the H18 when we are hit with a blast.
Just think of sail angles and wind direction.....

Does that make more sense to you now?

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Hi John - thanks for the reply.

I thought I understood apparent wind when on a tack as the sail is acting as a wing and as your speed increases then the vector of the wind will slowly more further forwards as a function of boat speed and angle to the wind. When heading on a broad reach to running downwind, I thought the sail stopped acting as a wind and acted more as a parachute so I typically fly the jib, shove the traveler out and loose the mainsheet. To depower, I would sheet in the main and/or the jib to reduce the amount of wind it could catch.

So if the wind is behind you, then the faster you go the more the wind will move off your beam I suppose. I'm only into cats for a year and have been sailing larger monohulls. I was under the impression that you were limited by the speed of the wind on a run but it sounds like I'm wrong. I'll definitely take a look at the book!

Mike

Apparent wind.... and ask yourself how the AC72 cats in the last America's Cup could clock 40 plus knots in 20 knots of breeze.
It's all about apparent wind.

You are correct when going upwind.
Going downwind in a cat is different than monoslugs.
Think of 'tacking downwind' always at an angle to the wind, never dead downwind 'wing on wing'.
Forget the parachute theory.
Yes, you will travel a further distance tacking downwind, however you'll go a lot faster, so the trick is to make sure that the VMG is better.
Does this help you understand how cats sail downwind?

Two weeks ago, in Club racing, I nailed my angles and ended up 1st over the line and 1st on handicap.
Last night, no matter what I did, I could not get anything right.
C'est la vie.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Ah - ok, that makes a bit more sense then. I'm sitting at working drawing little vector lines on a napkin. Definitely sounds like the book is a worthwhile buy. Thanks for the explanation.

Funny coincidence that last sentence of yours - the previous owner plastered it all over my boat to hide dings and cracks ... that's the winter project (sanding/repair). https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10396281_629841267146178_1096149848305517908_n.jpg?oh=1fec5e00b20926c7e09733cc57dae2ac&oe=56732997

mespig, you would be correct about the downwind sailing if we were sailing monohulls - because they are so much slower than catamarans/the wind speed, and very much limited in terms of speeds that they can achieve, they cannot take advantage of the apparent wind the way catamarans can. On a broad reach or run, a monohull has an apparent wind that is aft (abaft) of abeam - coming from their stern quarter, or at greater than 90 degrees off the bow. At that angle, the sails are no longer generating "lift" like a wing, but acting as a giant parachute - all drag.

If you sail your catamaran at greater than ~90 degrees apparent wind (greater than about 135 degrees true wind), you're doing the same thing - all drag. However, you're moving very slowly through the water. Cat sailors figured out in the 70's and 80's that catamarans actually can cover more distance downwind (better velocity made good, or VMG) if they gybe from side to side, sailing on a broad reach rather than a run, and using their sails with the apparent wind to generate lift downwind. Thus, on an 18, you want to sail downwind at about 90 degrees to the apparent wind, and have your traveller no further out than ~6" in from the inside of your leeward hull, and your mainsheet blocks about 18"-24" apart or so.

Note - don't be discouraged if you struggle keeping up speed on a broad reach, this is a far more difficult point of sail to understand and maintain on the water! Your best bet is to come up to a reach for speed, then turn downwind to a broad reach. As you start to lose speed, come back up to gain it back - essentially making slight S-turns the whole way.

Here's a good reference to get a little more familiar with some of the concepts: http://www.hobieclass.com/site/hobie/ih ... HobieU.pdf

They reference a lot of good books too. I like "Catamaran Racing for the 90's," but really any one of them will help you make leaps and bounds of improvements in your ability and skill!

ummmm, Mespig, nice picture, but please never use your tie downs on the trailer like that.
The hulls were never designed to handle compression in that way.
See Matt Bound's or SRM's postings on the subject.....
4 ties, one each from each cross bar just inside the hulls directly down to the trailer frames, with the fore-and-aft having an angle so that there is no fore-and-aft movement when on the trailer.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

thanks John - will check them out.

Sabres, not all monos are slugs downwind.

We've achieved 13+ kts downwind with a Asym at 90° apparent wind, which is about 130° true wind angle, that's on a J105 up on plane.

some others like a Melges 32 or C&C 30 can plane at close to 17+ kts downwind. surely not cat speeds but not a slug either.

when I race OD on the J109, we are ALWAYS looking for the optimum compromise between speed and distance downwind. more wind = deeper angle = bonus!

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís