rudder trimming

I have the same type of tramp on my 16. It came with the boat when I got it a couple of years ago. The racer I bought it from said it was original Hobie.

Last year I was at my local Hobie dealer, and he had a tramp he didn't recognize. We brought mine in and compared. They were the same cut.

I ended up getting a great deal - it would be a very limited market for that tramp.

Matt, Do you have any information on this type of tramp?

OK, to make up for my flippant first post:

There's a couple of ways to convert the old style upper rudder castings to an adjustable type. You can get the conversion kit from a Hobie dealer, or you can drill out the rivet in the upper casting, make the hole oblong, then replace the rivet with a stainless steel bolt. Pat Bisesi has done this (pbisesi on this forum) and can give you a better idea of how to do it.

Here's a cut-away diagram of the new style castings to give you an idea of the geometry involved:


Other things noticed on your boat:

No jib halyard tension - the luff of the jib is very loose. The wire in the jib replaces the forestay when sailing. The forestay should be loose.

What's with the bundle of line at the jib tack? Here's how the jib tack should look:


Notice the jib is tacked with the pin of the shackle; that gives you a little extra sheeting room when you're carrying more mast rake. The second adjuster lengthens the forestay; the shock cord takes up the slack.

The jib halyard should be cleated on the port side; the main halyard on the starboard - you've got them reversed. The jib halyard has a 3:1 purchase at the base of the mast (that's what the block on the mast is for, just below the cleat).

Like Skipshot said, you need a downhaul line (to keep the goosneck in the mast track at the very least) and to remove the mast step pin before sailing.

On the front crossbar, you've got an extra set of swivel cleats that would probably be best used for the jib sheet (lose the old, stock cleats in the tracks and get the plastic Tren-Tec cars). The jib sheet will work much better (up to uncleat) and you'll get more sheeting room.

The trapeze adjustments are really high. You should be able to touch the sidebar with the dogbone. A small block (pulley) attached to the end of the trap wire will make them work much better.

The jib traveller line should be a smaller diameter - it will work a lot better (high-quality line is very inexpensive these days).

You've got the remnants of a shroud lengthening system (for righting) attached to your shroud. That should come off if you're not using it.

There are a few other things, but these will make the boat easier to sail.

Hobie made "one-piece" tramps for the 16 in the early '90's.

They never really caught on. Racers didn't want them because you couldn't tighten them like the 3 piece.

The first one I saw was at the '92 16 Nationals in Bear Lake, UT.

Additional thoughts:

- Try adding more downhaul. At bare minimum, you should be taking the wrinkles out of the leading edge of the sail. Increasing downhaul tension flattens the sail and moves the CE (center of effort) forward and down. Moving the CE forward will lighten the load on the rudders.

- Make sure your jib is properly sheeted in. If the jib is not sheeted in tightly enough, the CE will move back and cause the rudders to load up.

- Make sure your rudders are locked down properly. Test this with the boat on the trailer. Lock them down and give the rudder a yank to make sure they don't kick back in the housing.

- Measure your mast rake against other boats that you know sail well.

- What ever change you made, un-do it.

sm

I do have a downhaul, that picture is from the person that sold me the boat last year, he just did a quick rig just to show the sails. I actually broke one of my cleats on sunday by putting TOO MUCH force on the downhaul.
And yes I know how the jib halyard goes on port etc

Also as I said before, I'm sure that the rudders are locked down, and additionally I do have the jib really tight and the forestay becomes loose. The way I currently hook my jib in though is with a quick release pin directly into the adjuster. That extra rope.. not sure what the guy did with it heh.

How can I use that other cleat on the front cross bar if it doesn't have a traveler though? That wouldn't allow me to go that well down wind.

I didnt make any changes since I've gotten the boat. I mean the rudders arnt extremely hard to steer with or anything, but just after holding it at a certain angle for a while while trying to steer straight, I feel tired and think there is probally more resistance than should be (I am a pretty fit person...)

mbounds - yes, I did adjust the dogbones after I got the boat, but can you please explain how that block can be attached/what it does (the one you suggested?) A picture would be great as well.

You actually know what those random things are (shroud adjusting system) that are on my shrouds, I had no clue and I've just left them there... can you please explain more in-depth what they are?
thanks

Those "random things" are the remnants of an Upright Solo Righting System which can be found in the Hobie Catalog and are used in the event of a capsize and you don't have enough weight to right the boat. You release the pin holding the shroud to the chainplate on the hull which is in the air and the cable is then what connects the shroud to the hull, putting the hull's righting moment closer to the righting point, thus making the boat easier to right. The problem is that once the boat is righted you then must re-attach the shroud to the chainplate since you cannot sail well without it properly attached; do this while the boat is rocking. Since it is unlikely you will be able to tighten the shroud to the original hole on the chainplate your rig will be a little looser, thus you must return to shore to re-tighten the shroud. The system is good for smaller, lighter crew who sail bigger boats (20 and 21), but there are better methods for your boat.

My advice: lose the cable attached to your shroud and learn to right the boat in another way.

Ya Skip,
I actually do rite the boat the normal way, I just never removed those pieces, didn't really care to, but I guess I can just remove them now that I know what they're meant for.

Trapeze adjuster block:

Harken swivel bullet block


Shackle it on to the thimble at the end of the trap wire, run the line with the dogbone through the block instead of through the wire thimble.

The decreased friction in the system allows the return shock cord to keep tension on the dogbone while you're hooked up and sitting on the sidebar.

Jib Travellers:
TrenTec traveller cars:


Don't have cleats - you would use the currently unused swivel cleats on the front crossbar for your jib sheet.

The holes on the car are (on port side, L to R) traveller control line end, jib sheet end, jib sheet turn to cleat, return shock cord end.

do you have any pictures of both of these things setup on a rigged boat? Isn't easy to understand, a picture would be excellent
thanks

There is a post about jib setup on this forum that had a good picture.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showfla ... o=&fpart=1

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>>I actually do rite the boat the normal way, I just never removed those pieces, didn't really care to, but I guess I can just remove them now that I know what they're meant for. <<

You have to be careful using a shroud lengthening system on a Hobie 16. I believe there is supposed to be a wire that wraps around the dolphin striker and shackles to the base of the mast. The purpose is to hold the mast in the mast step when the shroud is loosened. The mast doesn't have a captive base, so it will pop out of the step otherwise.

sm

look at the adjustment on the tiller xarm, it looks like its adjusted way out too far, my tiller adjustment is only a small amount out. Might be as one chap pointed out the toe in and out that's wrong.

Hey Johnny,
Before I throw my two cents in, I want to make sure that the what-cha-ma-call-it is plugged in before I take it apart and try to fix it. If you're sailing close hauled (beating) with the main sheeted in and you find resistance in pulling the tiller to maintain the angle just shy of going into the "no sail" zone (or whatever the preferred angle), that's normal. Either it's normal or there's something wrong with my boat too. The reason there's resistance in pulling the tiller is because the main, being sheeted in, is trying to pull the boat into the wind and when you're pulling the tiller, you're trying to do the exact opposite. I guess I've gotten used to it because I never really noticed it until yesterday when I went sailing, after reading your post a few days ago. By the way, what are your wind conditions? When beating, do you have your jib sheeted in as well? If not, that may help (it will help your boat go faster too) but you're still going to get the resistance. Maybe Matt or someone else that has responded might have further input. I hope this helps.

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Happy Sailing,

David

Johnny:

When I use to race my 16, going to weather I could hold the tiller with two fingers. You need a little bit of weather helm. It tales a lot of adjustment. You need to set the amount of mast rake needed for you crew weight. Then you needed to rake the rudders under. Also check the rudder alignment by measure distance between the rudders just below castings and a foot or so down. Find a good 16 sailor in you area to help you with this. It takes a little trial and error.

Hope this helps,

Doug