HCA says NO to the FX1

Bob,
I think Mike is just trying to keep this discussion on an even keel.

The group had recieved two email replies from HCA (Lori, and P.U.)stating we would not get the support unless we had 10-15 boats committed, or that it simply was not feasable.

It may not be clear to all involved that this did NOT amount to a formal position on the matter by HCA.

Paul Evenden has stated our case rather politely, and others are simply trying to bolster the case with more relevant facts to counter the unofficial response recieved earlier.

I personally feel it's best to keep the decision making process out in the light. This way we'll best stay focused on the facts, and not allow this to become a closed door decision that leaves everyone guessing as to the course our governing body is taking.

We believe we're doing the right thing to support the future of the class.
As long as all parties involved keep the goal clear, and the obstacles are openly discussed, then we should not have any conspiracy theories developing or any hidden agendas running amok.

Thanks for listening.

_________________
2003 Tiger - Don Atchley

Big Jib



I don't feel it's dirty laundry.

It is what it is. And people that are passionate about the boat they race are trying to change it for the better.

To date the numbers that are documented have not been entirely acurate. Even on the Tiger standings for the Northwest, over half the events are missing, and some of the boats that raced are not represented.
So, we shouldn't entirely base the decision off of that data.
For sure that database needs some polishing if it's going to be used to justify decisions in the future.

_________________
2003 Tiger - Don Atchley

Let me preface this response by saying that I do not represent the HCA's position. I speak from 34 years of racing experience and 22 years of attending National / North American events. I'm also a US SAILING certified race officer and was the Deputy Race Officer for the 2007 H17 / H18 North Americans.

The class has no dirty laundry here. Let's look at the facts:

Fact:
The FX-One has been produced in Europe since 1999. It was brought to the US in 2002 (There was a demo boat at the Mega event in Ft. Walton Beach). It has not gained widespread acceptance in either Europe or the US.

Fact:
In July, 2007, The Harrison, BC H-17 / H-18 / Tiger North American Championship was awarded to HCA Division 4.

Fact:
In September of 2007, 2 FX-One owners who live within 200 miles of Harrison, BC start lobbying to include the FX-One with the aforementioned event.

Fact:
There are only 6 HCA members who own FX-Ones. Other than the two mentioned above, one is in Sacramento, CA (900 miles from Harrison); another in Santa Cruz, CA (1020 miles); another in Sogn, MN (1800 miles) and the other is in Skenateles, NY (2800 miles).

Fact:
There has not been any event this year where more than 2 FX-Ones were in attendance.


I am all for the promotion of the FX-One. It is the logical progression for the singlehanded sailor from the H-17. However, the liklihood of getting a meaningful number of them (5 or more) at this event seems very remote. I personally believe that you've got to have at least five boats to call it a "North Americans". Good on ya' if you can get that many there.


The Race Management Perspective:
There has never been a North Americans with four classes sharing the same course. Two is difficult - maintaining separation between the 17's and 18's in New York this year took a lot of effort. That was with two weather marks (four support boats) and a five-minute delay between starts.

The race management for the Harrison event is further complicated by the addition of the Tigers. Now you have a class that is significantly faster than the other classes downwind. How do you maintain separation? At the minimum, you need another weather mark (and another support boat). Still, the classes are going to end up interefering with each other. Starting sequences will be longer and so will the wait after finishing. Compromises will be made.

This is not a weekend regatta, where some interference is expected. When I'm sailing in a NA Championship, I don't want any interference from another class. Call me spoiled, but dammit - IT'S MY NORTH AMERICANS! IT'S A BIG DEAL!

Now throw a fourth class (the FX-One) into the mix. Further starting delays. More waiting. More interference. The only way to solve this is to use trapezoid courses or add another course. You've just doubled the number of support boats and personnel. Are the organizers prepared to do this? I don't think so, but they've got 11 months to sort it out.

There's a lot more to this than "Sure, we'll give you a start". I think it's great that the FX-One is starting to take off in the US. My honest opinion is that they're not quite ready - yet - for a North American Championship of their own.

At the 2006 Europeans Quiberon there were about 10 to 12 FX-1

Another look at the EU site and two more are missing
2004 fox and fx at Cangas, ESP
2005 Tiger, fox, fx and 14's in NED
bid only info, no results

_________________
HCANA Class Member

It's interesting to post the attendnance in Europe, but is has no bearing on what happens in the North American Region.

To complete your list:
FX One European Attenance
2002 - 6 (results)
2003 - 7 (results)
2004 - can't find any results, although I know it happened.
2005 - 6 (results)
2006 - 15 (the www.eurohobie2006.com website domain name has expired, Google's cache had the results)
2007 - 5

I know there are many difficulties to this, there is no simple solution. But I think this is the best way to start building the class. My biggest fear is that this boat will disappear, and not be allowed to show what it is capable of. It may be the logical step from a 17, but if the FXone is not waiting there to greet the aging 17 class, (the boats not the skippers), then what options are there?

Yeah! i can finally make my own comments!...

Ok, Here's how i see it, and I've sent this on to bob M as well.

If the Class (fx1) can show me a committment of minimum 5 boats to attend the event, then i would be encouraged to resubmit to the HCA BOD to include the boat in next years event.
Yes, we want to encourage the class, it looks like a fun boat (can't wait for a single hander with a crew weight of over 200 lbs though) and i think the promise of a championship event is good for that. But the numbers have to be there!

So, FX1 sailors, get on the horn, talk to you buddies, encourage the fence sitters, and if we can get some committed numbers, i'll gladly reapproach HCA for inclusion.

BTW, matt, i was involved in a cat championship event last year (open, not just hobie), we had 5 classes on one course, 41 boats, 11-15 races per fleet, 70 starts in 3 days, all on the same course. Spinnaker and non-spin boats. If you were last to finish in your class, you had about 2min rest time before you started again. Incentive to finish first or in the top of the fleet.

so, just because HCA has never done it in a NA's event, dosn't mean it's impossible, and it is my intention for next years event to have the equipment to minimize the wait time for the sailors on the water and maximize the sailing time. And with the support that is showing itself so far, that will be a reality.

Paul Evenden
Chair, 2008 Hobie 17, 18, tiger NA Championships
[/url]http://www.2008hobienac.com[/url]

When Hobie 14's were introduced, Hobie Alter and his friends travelled all over the country, essentially selling the boats out of the back of a truck. They had an unconventional product and needed an unconventional sales force.

The reality of the business today is that Hobie USA makes more on the sale of one Wave than it does on an FX One that costs three times as much (since they are buying them from Hobie Europe and re-selling them). It doesn't make business sense to spend a lot on promoting a boat with a small profit margin.

You guys (Karl, Don, Mike) are the ambassadors of the FX-One class. You are the "mobile sales force" that Hobie Cat can't afford. Hustle the boat over the next year. Take it to places where nobody's seen it. Let people take it out and play with it. Convince Jim Sohn and Dan Carpenter to stock a demo. Pick one regatta where you all show up (kind of like the Daggerless and the 14's). SELL SOME BOATS! Hobie Europe will continue to make them as long as people are buying them.

The future of the FX-One is in your hands.

What you've described is a weekend regatta. Minimizing wait time is easy. Minimizing intereference between the classes is extremely difficult.

It's not about the quantity of racing, but the quality. If I'm on a 17 in Harrison, I don't want to see, hear or smell a Tiger except on the beach or from a distance.

I've been trying. Remember this http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=7746


I know we can round up 5 boats. Hell, I'll buy another one and pay someone else to sail it. Any takers? Matt- wanna ditch the brand new 17, for the all new 17?

Matt, if you want to race without interference, not too many choices out there... especially with the smaller classes of boats... 17, 18... not enough to be on their own on the water.

the way i figure, 5 fleets, 40 boats, 1 fleet, 40 boats.... all on the same water... not much difference.
If you've ever raced handicap, you've had to deal with different speeds in boats. we are all supposed to be knowledgable sailors. Like i mentioned in a previous post.. it's a big pond. we can sent the kite boats a loonnnggg way out (of our way) And we will have the equipment to separate the start and finish lines from each other.

It will be fun. It will be good sailing. Hope you can make it.

Paul

It's good to see some levity returning to this discussion!

Matt B. - Unfortunatly, because of the quality of the Canadian beer, you'll be smelling all of us. On and off the water.

There's no such thing as a light air day once we start drinking the local brew!

_________________
2003 Tiger - Don Atchley

Yea, we were kind of thinking along those lines when we suggested the Hobie 17/18/Tiger Nationals.




Wind, Current, Powerboats, Jetskiers and even other racers are all part of the course.
Play it where it lies. I've never seen anyone design a championship golf course that looked like a football field. The best courses are the tough ones.

_________________
2003 Tiger - Don Atchley

At the 2004 North Americans in Monterey, CA we had 22 H-17's, 17 H-20's and 20 Tigers all on the same course. The regatta was very well run, and we did not have many conflicts. It was interesting running downwind being "hunted" by overtaking Tigers. We did manage to stay clear of the "Spear Chuckers".

As to Harrison next year, suggest the FX-1's be given a start if possible. Paul Evenden will do a good job, with our local Div. 4 volunteers support.
Paul did an excellent job running the 2001 Continental Championship in Vancouver for the H-17 and H-18 Classes.

Caleb Tarleton H-17 6446
Tom Tarleton H-17 6185