HCA says NO to the FX1

I'm not so sure...How about the A-class? More on that later...

Maybe not dead, but it's definitely not growing. And the potential for growth is why I think letting the FX's be part of this Nationals is a good idea.
I even go one step further and say that if "it would be too much for the race committee", and we "don't want excessive waits between races", to save RC resources by letting the 17's and the FX's start together. Set a different A mark. To me, Hobie racing is in a pretty fluid state (like that pun?:) right now and we should embrace the newer designs--especially the single handers. Afterall, the FX did fill a hole in in the Hobie line after they discontinued the 17. Right?

With stipulations...
We should require that there are at least 5 FX's at every start. State it in the SI's that if there isn't then no racing...and if there isn't a certain number of races then the event doesn't count etc,etc. Why not? The more the merrier!

I have sold a fair number of these suckers in the last few years. Mostly to people that want a high performance boat to sail solo or with their families, not the hardcore racer. I've been sailing the FX personally since 2005. I would like to see the class grow for 2 reasons.

1) To sell more boats (Make money=my bias).

2) To grow the class so I have someone to race against (It's such a great boat, I love sailing it!).

Single handed boats are so great because you don't need to find crew, which makes it much less complicated to go sailing. Many Waves, FX's and Getaways that I sell, my customers like the fact that they can sail solo or with crew. So, I think single-hand cats are going to take off as peoples lives get busier and busier.




Now, if we're talking about single handed cats that actually race, then the A-class has us beat hands-down. The A class worlds will be held in November in FL and they had to cap it at 100 boats. I'd like to see that happen to the FX!! (See bias above:D)

I don't think it's really that big of deal. If there is enough interest, and the class gets 5 boats to the start it should be all good. The race organizers will have an easier time balancing budgets, more racers= more fun, and it may help the class grow. Cool.




Keys are in it!!

It's all fun and games!! If not this year, maybe next guys!!

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Paul, the FX-one is intended for 1 or two people, I doubt your being over min weight would hurt you. Ask Jeremy (how tall are you, Jeremy?)

Congrats on your Hotline profile as while back, Paul!

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I'll agree that the H-17 is not a growing class, even though I just bought a new one - and so did a bunch of other people east of me over the last two years. It cost me a third of what a new A-cat would.

Still, other than the 2006 NA's in San Francisco (hardly a hot-bed of H-17 activity), the H-17 attendance at North Americans has been fairly constant at 30-35 boats over the past six years. East coast events have more; west coast less.


No.

Harrison is not a weekend regatta. It's a North Americans. There will be no combining of class starts.

The H-17 will still be the largest class in Harrison, but I expect the numbers to be below average (maybe 25). They are not going to pull a lot of boats from the east coast to the event. If the FX-Ones get their act together in time, then they can have a separate start.

Not to muddy the water here, but I just got one of those kayaks with the sail on it, and was wondering if I could get a start too?
Karl, I am just KIDDING. Sometimes things are funny to me that aren't to other people........

Sorry Chris,

No Tri-hulls Allowed. (this year anyhow)

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2003 Tiger - Don Atchley

Don
How's the boys leg and how did it happen?

Matt, there is a good possibility that the 18 will outnumber the 17 at this event. So be forwarned!

Paul

This was quite interesting.

As a novice tell me about the famed Alter Cup. How many people attend this regatta? Doesn't it work like this:

There is a qualifier. Hobie's and any other catamaran attend a division event and there is a handicapping system. Our top sailor in division 4 H-16's always gets beat by non Hobie boats and is furious about the rating system.

The winners then are qualified to attend the Alter Cup which is raced on a different catamaran each year. Usually an F-18 boat. Correct? It is the Capri-F-18 this year I think.

Why not petition the Alter Cup people to make the boat an FX-1? Have them buy 25 boats or so like at a Worlds event to provide to participants. All qualifiers will want to train on an FX-1 before the event. This would equal at least some boat sales. Then sell the 25 new boats after the event at a reduced price. That is 25 more boats onto our market. With the 2 sales combined there must be enough boats to start getting H17 crossovers.

Also remind me as I am a beginer, isn't the 17 faster upwind than the FX-1? In division 4 I think it is so and that contains Mike and Don. Therefore the draw to move to the FX-1 cannot just be "Ooooh, look at the spinnaker!" There has to be a concerted effort (by uniriggers) to join the ranks. Throw some bait out there! Nothing draws the Alpha Male persona's like competition!

Anyways, the Alter Cup takes its name from HOBIE Alter does it not?? Why not get it to promote it's namesake a bit to infuse this emerging class?

2-cents

Jer

First things first.

The Hobie Alter Cup is the name of the trophy, not the name of the event. The event's name is "The US SAILING Multihull National Championship".

US SAILING controls the event. There are 10 regional qualifiers corresponding to the 10 US SAILING Areas (you're in Area L). The qualifiers are open to any type of beach catamaran and scored using the Portsmouth Handicapping System. Different conditions will favor different boats. Each boat type's handicap is determined by experience - boats like the Hobie 16, which has a lot of good sailors and a lot of data has a "hard" rating, i.e. it's harder to win against a boat that doesn't have the depth of talent and sparse data. A Hobie 14, for example, is known to have a "soft" rating - it nearly always does well on handicapping.

Anyway, 10 other competitors are selected by class associations, by petition or by some other means (go to http://www.ussailing.org/championships/ ... /index.asp to learn more)

In recent history, the US SAILING Multihull Championship has been sailed on Hobie Tigers (2002), F-18HT's (2003), Hobie 16s (2004), Hobie Tigers (2005), NACRA 20's (2006) (was to have been on NACRA Infusion F-18's, but they couldn't produce enough before the event).

Last year, the event used F-16 Blades supplied by Vectorworks and this year the event will be held on Capricorn F-18's.

Never in its 21 year history has the event been held in a single-handed boat.

Typically, 10 boats are supplied by a manufacturer, which are sold at the conclusion of the event at a discount - after all, they are "used" boats. During the event, boats are rotated so that everyone gets to sail (at least initially).

To get the FX-One involved, you would need to:
1. Convince Hobie Cat to put up the capital (somewhere around $100K) to being the boats into the country and deliver / set up / maintain them during the event.
2. Convince the US SAILING Multihull Council and the Championship Coordinator (Jake Kohl - jake(at)teamseacats.com) to hold the event in a singlehanded boat.
3. Try to get as many pre-sales as possible of the used boats.

Actually, if you can get #1, #2 should follow pretty easily. #3 is the bugger.

Good response Matt.

Yes but who the hell has ever heard of the F-16 Blade or the Capricorn F-18? How the heck does such boat attract the attention of the Alter Cup sponsers which are the Multihull blah blah. FX-1 sailors should get in line to have their boat used as THE boat for a year. There are so many unheard of F-18 boat that do not have anything close to the close knit, devoted Hobie ranks. If that boat (FX-1) becomes the target boat, the numbers will jump beyond H17's. Creating the first single hander event, the Alter Cup and the qualifiers will attract a legion of H17 followers that until now have been silent. My division is packed with excellent H-17 sailors. We can run very, very long races and the entire pack finishes within 20 seconds of each other. All of them are former H16 sailors and have gone single handed to avoid the issue of finding crew. The US Sailing Multihull Championships loses when there is not an event (ever) for a group of excellent sailors that are often more dedicated and competitive than anything I have seen in multihull sailing.

The exception is the H14 thingy that is coming up and looks to be huge. Imagine if Hobie provided 20 FX-1's for this event to be sailed on the 5th day by the top 20 finishers cold turkey after the 4th day was a get familiar with it day! Wow!


Another 2-cents.

Jer

F-16's are starting to gain some traction in the Southeast US, especially Florida. They follow a box rule, like F-18's. Capricorns are made in Australia by AHPC and are probably the 3rd most popular F-18 worldwide, after the Tiger and the NACRA F-18 (all varieties). It's being promoted by Robbie Daniel and his wife, again in the Southest US. The people that have organized the Alter Cup in the past few years are also from the Southeast US. You figure it out.

Again, it's all a matter of money. An FX-One retails for about $13,500. That's not chump change. Not many people have that much money to blow on a toy.

The reason the 14 event is huge is because most of the boats used in it cost a tenth of that (or less).

Hobie Cat USA makes very little on the boats imported from HCE. Getting a reduced rate would be a tough sell. Pre-selling a currently un popular boat will be difficult as well. Look at what happened to the SL16's, Nobody bought one and they're all going back to the manufacturer.

The FXone is faster than a H17 going up wind. Sailor for sailor. Downwind with the chute, no question. No chute? Not sure, I'm not good enough to make that distinction. One design racing it doesn't matter, You must carry the spinnaker whilst attend a HC event.

It will be a long freaking time before the FXone surpasses the H17 in numbers. The boat has been in the US for 5-6 years and its just now, (thanks to a couple of loud mouths I know), to get some recognition. It seems that most of the people that buy the FXone don't race them, so they are kind of unseen.

Matt is totally right about the 14's being such a large event. You will never see so many $300 boats at a Nationals like you will at a 14NAC.


It's too bad I'm such a crappy sailor. I'm going to do the area K qualifier this year. The FXone has a sandbag rating, put it in the right hands and you could do really well on PN handicap


and no Matt, I didn't put anyone up to this. Or get a different user ID
I kinda hoped this thread would disappear.

I'm not blaming you, Karl. Of anybody, I'd love to see the FX-One do well. I'm not going to get one, though, until I have some people to race against - one-design. Until then, I'll keep racing the 17 and the 14 (and the 16 and the Tiger).

There's a magical price point around $5K. You can buy a decent used 16, 17, a couple of 14's - even a 20 for that much. A new Wave or a discounted Getaway. Anything more than that, and you're in a different market. There just aren't that many people willing to shell out more than that for a beach cat unless they are somewhat serious racers.

deleted

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Mike Hensel
'86 Hobie 18, '93 Hobie 14, '80 Hobie 14(restso in progress)
Wind in your sails, water in your shoes, great day!

Karl,

Where and when is the Area K qualifier this year? I always find out after it's too late to plan for it, and the US Sailing web site is (IMO) such a pia to navigate. All I can come up with is Kurt Korte – Roscoe, IL is the Area K rep.

Thanks,
John

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