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 Post subject: pressure gauges, pumps
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:53 am 
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We've had some discussion about pressure gauges, often hard to find again due to odd subject names. I just broke my only gauge compatible with Hobie valve, so have these thoughts.

- The expensive digital gauge (I forget mfr) proved disappointing, because the bayonet tongs were incompatible (some said you could still press it to get a reading). The dim display faces sideways and is hard to read. My tests suggested it was precise without being accurate... reading maybe a half pound high.

- Solstice Universal High Pressure Valve Adapter: I ran across this misnamed thing in amazon... it looks like the pressure gauge of my dreams, as it has 3 gasket sizes to adapt to 3 types of halkey-r valves http://www.nrs.com/repair/hrvalves.asp . Which one does Hobie use, if any? I dunno but I mention this gauge before testing it since the supply is shrinking. I have several variations of valves and hope to also use these gaskets on pumps for the stupid variations of bayonet lengths. Sadly, the gauge faces sideways, not up.

- Ashcroft gauge: I hated this one that I just broke, but advantage was it has no bayonet (like the Hobie pump) so was multi compatible. Mine read about half a pound low I think, and probably just caused me to break a foot pump. I didn't realize the footpump had a self limiter of pressure where it would resist pumping over the ideal pressure. I forced it and it came apart.

- Gauges integrated into pumps: These tend to give both a low and high reading each stroke... which one do you use? Maybe because I have a constricted valve, the down stroke gives a high reading compared to the bottom-of-stroke which is artificial pump-only since the valve to the inflatable has relaxed closed. But the downstroke may also be artificial because of even open valve resistance, so I guess I should use the average.

- Other gauges: it looks like there is a lot of fragile crap on the market that also screams of miscalibration... It may pay to look for user reviews whatever your choice.

P.S. on electric pumps... it looks like Hobie pressure target 3-5psi is not reachable by the common turbine technology, and you would have to top off with hand pump or piston electric. Someone mentioned an integrated turbine/piston pump that seems overkill. The Hobie manual pump doesn't let you put your back or legs into it like a manual piston or foot pump, but you can switch arms and fill it quite easily.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:24 am 
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SEVYLOR 12 VOLT 15 PSI SUP AND WATER SPORT PUMP

is what I've been using. Pretty affordable, and does the job. You do need that "new short" Halkey Roberts adapter, and people complain about the flimsy hose...so far, no issues.

Besides saving my back, using the electric pump is shaving 15 to 20 minutes on my launch time. As the pump goes, I'm setting up the rest of my gear...couldn't imagine going back to hand-pumping, esp when it gets really hot out.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:45 pm 
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-Solstice Universal High Pressure Valve Adapter: Arrived and looks good! It has the same gauge that I have installed in another pump where it seemed the most accurate. Handles 2 Halkey valve lengths and gauge even faces up. I got 2 so every craft has it's own gauge packed inside and not forgotten.

-SEVYLOR 12 VOLT 15 PSI SUP AND WATER SPORT PUMP: I did buy this for some huge inflatables I have. It looks like the most amazing number of advantages for no more than the notorious crap electric pumps. I will try it with a small jump start battery. The flimsy hose is for non halkey and the other included hose looks good, after I added an extra homemade thin rubber gasket to handle short halkey.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:16 pm 
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daft wrote:
-Solstice Universal High Pressure Valve Adapter: Arrived and looks good!

The short gasket fits the Hobie, but the frick fracken glue between adaptor and body fails when you twist lock. It adheres to one but not the other, so I have to try some random glues. Actually not a show stopper... if I just hold it together it works better than any other I have tried on the Hobie. The gauge brand is bravo. Edit: just one of 2 gauges failed with the glue.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:48 pm 
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Here's some observations that might help someone or not. First, the digital air gauge which was hard to read from it's dim sideways mount has a soft plastic shield which can be disposed of for better readability. It still doesn't lock in to the Hobie valve, but can be held there uncomfortably.

I have 2 electric pumps that I don't use for my Hobie, but looked into convertor cables which brought up the issue of fuses. The pumps have 25 and 15(?) amp ratings which could smoke a lot fuses; maybe some in your car. Also they may smoke some small lithium jumpstart batteries I was gonna try. Anyway I ordered some high end cable convertors with big fuses and will avoid using my car cig lighter which already had to be replaced for $200.

My Hobie isn't close at hand, but with a number of other crafts with varying HR valves, I tried to make sense in classifying them. Supposedly there is legacy long vs new short (Hobie?), identifiable by textures on the valves which I couldn't see. I thought I could group them from the distance of gasket to the inner grip lock of the bayonet. Many are a half inch vs about 5/8". That didn't predict all compatibilities... I think the valves may have a high outer ring and low inner ring which engages gaskets differently based on their diameter. Phew, I guess you have to gamble on compatibility when buying pumps or gauges not from Hobie.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:52 am 
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I really like the small Air Head pump I bought for my two inflatables (2015 i12 and 2016 i9).

https://www.amazon.com/AIRHEAD-AHP-12H- ... rhead+pump

It does not pump to full "Hobie pressure" required, so I just finish it off with the manual Hobie pump supplied. You know when the pump has reached it's maximum pressure, as you hear the rpm pick up (similar to a vacuum cleaner when it is up against it's maximum head displacement). The other issue is that the air valves have to be open when using the pump, so you lose a little pressure until you can get your fingers on the valves and get them closed. In the long run, it saves lots of time and sweat in 90+ temperatures. :oops:

Noel


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:56 am 
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Pardon me, I selected the wrong URL with only a 5 foot cord. :|

The one I got has a 10 foot cord and is:

https://www.amazon.com/Airhead-Hi-Outpu ... rhead+pump

Sorry about that.........

Noel


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:45 pm 
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daft wrote:
Also they may smoke some small lithium jumpstart batteries I was gonna try.

I tried a generic 2psi pump with a large jumpstart battery of major brand (which includes a superslow piston air pump of it's own). This pump earlier worked fine with a standalone lead acid car battery, but wouldn't give pressure on the smaller portable one. It half inflated the first chamber, then ran slow way before the timespan where you need to give it a cooling rest. The fully charged jump battery instantly put out a red discharged light even at the start. I can't relate the battery capacity units to the pump consumption units. So much for multi use portability.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:19 am 
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I had hoped to consolidate info of what works for what, but can't seem to get consistent results. Today I tried the digital Sevlor pump or whatever it's called and it didn't scale up to be useable for me at all. I tried to fill a chamber about equal to all 3 on an i14t, and it couldn't even push out major dents. I distrust (or may have misread) the pressure reading it gave and had to shut it off due to 10 minute overheat restriction. It's a piston pump so is much slower than turbines, but apparently doesn't compensate with higher pressure potential.

I switched to my cheapo Rave turbine pump off the same car battery. Bang, it fired the thing up to 1psi firmness in a few moments. This was with the wrong adapter fitting leaking mucho air, and the built in intentional safety leak on that pump! It's amazing that most of the work goes into filling the bladder with nearly zero pressure air - with a manual pump it kills you to overcome the friction thru valves and such, but is not much harder to put in 25% more air which is all you need to reach 3.x psi.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:13 pm 
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daft wrote:
Today I tried the digital Sevlor pump or whatever it's called and it didn't scale up to be useable for me at all.

Just to be fair, I beat this story more to death. Amazingly I am finally using both the turbine and piston pumps in symbiotic combination for larger craft than i12s. Maybe the Sevlor piston needed a breakin period or more likely got overheated at large volume low pressures because it ran too fast. Anyway if I prefill with a turbine for the first pound until it taps out, then the Sevlor will dig in and fairly rapidly fill the remaining few psi. The handoff allows both pumps to take their required cool down periods too. I never seem to get the right valve adaptor so have to hold it tight. Somebody in another thread found an integrated turbine/piston/battery pack at a high price that looks more attractive than my pile of car battery and ramshackle pump boxes on a wheel cart.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:11 am 
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Rats, my turbine pump ingested some fine sand, and now sounds like a pepper grinder. Not sure when it will die since it seems to still pump air. Often I put the pump in sort of a plastic bowl to avoid this, but this time I put it on a flat inflatable surface which had traces of sort of rock flour. Of course it never stays upright, but dances it's intake hither and yon like a vacuum cleaner.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:39 pm 
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atrium2008 wrote:
Can a BTP TWO STAGE ELECTRIC TURBO PUMP be used with a Hobie i14t?

OK, I bit the bullet and ordered this astronomically priced turbine piston combination pump. It is overkill for Hobies, but larger inflatables are too much even for the Sevylor piston.

Only Comfy Kayak would sell it to me... at a nickel discount and a whale of a shipping charge. Otherwise Seaeagle seems to have a monopoly for online distribution and they never discount and refuse to ship to my location via Amazon or whatever.

EDIT addendum: Oh rats, there seem to be many online sources for this pump under the search name BRAVO. You may have to guess if it is the one or two stage version, but if they do specify BP it is just the piston... BTP is Bravo Turbine Piston of course, but often omitted. See bottom of https://www.hobie.com/forums//viewtopic ... 5&p=271030 for review

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Ouch, I have lost my touch as a savvy online shopper. Looks like west marine has combo pumps at cheaper prices although may additionally need halkey adaptor (short? long?). Will try to cancel the Bravo.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:03 pm 
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daft wrote:
Looks like west marine has combo pumps at cheaper prices although may additionally need halkey adaptor (short? long?).

What westMarine sells is actually BP and BTP under their own brand. I couldn't face the $150 or so for convenience so got the BP for about $100. It is just a larger slow piston Sevylor at double the price and not even an air gauge. You can set the target PSI on an analogue dial and hope it doesn't overshoot like my Sevylor often does. No halkey valve, but you can buy a short HR adaptor.

BP is meant for up to a 9 ft dinghy, and can run for 20 min vs 10 for Sevylor before melting down and needing a long rest. Sevylor may handle the smaller Hobies and BP hopefully can handle the larger ones. I have one craft that really could use expensive BTP turbine mode, but these Bravos warn that inputting a particle of sand will destroy them.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:19 pm 
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daft wrote:
What westMarine sells is actually BP and BTP under their own brand. I couldn't face the $150 or so for convenience so got the BP for about $100. It is just a larger slow piston Sevylor at double the price and not even an air gauge. You can set the target PSI on an analogue dial

Well, I spent a couple sweaty hours digging up my reciept, and traded up Bpiston for Bturbo/piston. The piston-only took forever on something larger than a Hobie and is noisey enough to invite a lynching by nearby picnickers. The new one has a reassuring visible gauge. Maybe I should have gotten their insurance in case an ingested grain of sand wrecks the expensive thing. I even have a smaller pump on order, this time with integrated battery, that may be suitable for a Hobie on a day too hot for handpumps. What happened to my hand pumping work ethic?

Update: It has a cleanable sand filter! Manual says dialing down pressure while under pressure will immediately break it tho.

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