Loose rivets on akas.

This is a very unfortunate repeat of an older issue. Someone certainly has dropped the ball here and at our supplier.

#1 - This is something Hobie will pay your dealer to do via warranty.

The rivets can be drilled in a couple of ways. Use a 3/16" VERY SHARP bit designed for stainless or even a larger bit. You only need to remove the rivet head. You have to be very cautious if using a larger bit... you DO NOT want to drill through the aluminum with the larger bit.

If the rivet spins... Tilt the drill 20-30 degrees. The rivet can still spin, but the bit still removes material around the head. You can stop short of fully drilling the head off and use a sharp 3/16 punch to pop the rivet in and head off.

Try a small flat head screw driver jammed in under the head before drilling to tighten and prevent spinning.

Keep initial pressure low to prevent spinning. More friction can cause the spin.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

based on my experience re-riveting Hobies, turning the drill at an angle just chews everything up.
Keep a sharp chisel in your tool kit, and smack the rivet on the side if it spins. Sometimes this will shear the head off
and if not it will deform the barrel enough to let you drill the rest of the head off.

I have already fixed the problem. One of the akas was fine. The others were rather bad, as there didn't seem to be enough epoxy applied. They just don't seem to be a very good fit at all, very loose fit. Seems to be a machining problem with the knuckle assembly. I would have thought that they should fit firmly together without epoxy?

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2021 Dune Hobie Lynx

Was there any epoxy in there?

Could be some tolerance issues, but the epoxy is a perfect process here. Tighter fit / Keeps water out / corrosion reduced.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I've personally drilled thousands of rivets off. It works in this situation. Since you would epoxy and then rivet again. Damage to the hole is a near non-issue. I just have many ways of trying to deal with spinning rivets and that is one. You start simple and then adapt to issues as they come up.

One additional instruction though. If using the tilted drill method. You can work the drill in a circle around the rivet to cut all the way around ... if the rivet is not spinning.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

There seemed to be an attempt with the epoxy, maybe enough to hold a bread stick, but certainly not enough to hold or seal.
The tolerances are not close at all as you can see in the short video. Rather than epoxy, I have gone for marine sikaflex. Once cured it will hold tight and stop the stress on the rivets.

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2021 Dune Hobie Lynx

The sikaflex works great. I did my '10 TI knuckles back in 2012 and they are still rocksolid. I did replace the rivets but mingle reports just the Sikaflex alone works well:
https://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtop ... 71&t=42667

Since you can wrap completely around the aka bracket, try wrapping Gorilla tape as tight as possible over the spinning rivet.
Attempt to drill the center of the rivet again. If that doesn't work, and drilling at an angle isn't something you want to try, then try this.

Clean the area well with alcohol, and allow to dry. Put a solid dollop of Marine Goop over the rivet, and tuck it under the head a bit, and then allow it begin to set. After it skins but is still soft and not flowing, push the butt of the drill bit down in the center of the Goop'ed rivet to thin the Goop in that area only. Allow the Goop to completely cure. Drill away!

If time is of the essence, drink beer while you wait and the time will just go away on it's own.

G'day Matt,

My 2015 AI doesn't have any epoxy in there at all.

Another point to note: when I inspected all of the rivets, It was visible to the eye that there was rust stains already forming inside the rivet heads. This is where the rivet shaft had been snapped when the rivets were secured into position, obviously the rivets are manufactured with a plain steel shaft.

Safe sailing,

Peter.

All the rivets on my TI worked loose years ago. Drilled out all the rivets. There was no glue so cleanup was easy just sanded the ends a bit. The glue used for repair was suggested by an earlier thread - 3M 5200 marine adhesive in black. I didn't feel comfortable with using new rivets so I used 2 2 1/2 inch SS bolts flat washers and nylock nuts. Bolt has a phillips head and was sized perfect so as to not require any additional drilling or hole enlargement. Now the arm is firmly secured to the knuckle. No wiggle, rock solid and never a chance of future rivet failure. No guessing if rivet is correct material or if wasn't put on tight enough. After over a year and many outings, some in rough weather everything is still solid.

The trickiest part of the repair is that since the 2 bolts form an "X" inside the middle of the tube they intersect in the middle. Mark approx. where the bolts intersect and just put a small kink in each of the bolts at that point. Do a test of the bolts thru the arms and knuckle to be sure they fit prior to adding any glue. Once you have your bolts ready to go just add the glue, assemble w/ bolts and snug them tight. No need to over-tighten, some glue will get on the bolt and threads - not a big deal. Wipe off any excess glue and let cure for a week.

The 2 1/2" bolts are slightly longer than needed so I used a cutting dremel to cut and polish the part of the bolt past the nylock nut. That keeps any exposed bolt threads from catching anything and makes it look more professional. Little matching black paint and you're done.

I have a 2015 TI and some of my rivets are loose also. I originally took my TI into the dealer because my akas would slide out the while sailing in rough conditions. The plastic clips don't seem to lock in secure enough. The dealer noticed the loose rivets, he didn't like what he saw. I'm having all my cross bars and akas replaced under warranty.

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2015-Tandem Island

My 2015 TI also had looseness in the akas. Dealer re glued and re-riveted all of them, under warranty. looks good so far. Hobie was very easy to work with to get this taken care of. At the same time they also took care of providing the free new CT seat anchor upgrade. Hobie makes a great product, and have excellent customer service. Also I have some looseness in the hinge pin and looseness between the portion of knuckle that goes into the cross bars. The rivets probably account for 80% of the movement that I was seeing. I'm looking into what I can do about the rset of the wiggle that I see.

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2015 TI Hibiscus " Bazinga"
Harbor Freight modified trailer with TI cradles
Heavy duty scupper cart with cradle
Hobie tramps- black

Old saying... Stainless is not stain free it "stains less"... depends on the carbon content. More carbon is stiffer, but can discolor.

Rivets have to use a shank that has more carbon (still stainless) which will discolor... in addition... the steel tools used to pull the rivets can leave some material embedded in the shank and also cause a discoloration. This is very different from a straight steel shank. That would rust away aggressively. More likely just a surface discoloration that will go away in time. I'd be VERY surprised if they were actually just steel. That would be an error.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

As stringy says, the sikaflex works amazingly well. Perhaps it's better than epoxy, as it has a little more 'give'?

I've been using mine for a couple of years now without any rivets at all. However I did buy a bunch of all-aluminium rviets (both the rivet and pin are ally). I might get around to fitting them one day, mainly to plug the holes so I can't hear the loud 'blooping' noise that is transmitted up along the akas.

Using all-aluminium rivets (while obviously not as strong as s/steel ones) would reduce or eliminate any changes of galvanic corrosion between the alloy of the akas, the rivets and the knuckles.

Cheers,

Mike.

Hobie is very good about repairing these at no charge. Remove the amas from your boat, put them in the ama bag, Take it to your local dealer and they will get the parts and do the repair. My August 2015 purchase suffered from this, on all four corners and It was promptly and professionally addressed. Hobie really is easy to deal with, just give them a chance to do the right thing. Mine appeared to have never been glued in the first place. Of course, maybe, I just have the world's best Hobie dealer.

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2015 TI Hibiscus " Bazinga"
Harbor Freight modified trailer with TI cradles
Heavy duty scupper cart with cradle
Hobie tramps- black