Problems on our latest outing

We did a 4 day trip out of Chokoloskee, FL, this past weekend. Very windy. It was a day when 80 miles to the east, Pelican, in the 1200-mile WaterTribe Ultimate Florida Challenge race broke his Adventure Island Tandem cross bar apparently, not sure exactly what happened ("...a new cross member was flown in....") Anyway, tough winds in S FL.

One member of our group lost a paddle in a stretch that had some serious waves and chop. It came out of the paddle cozy. Anyone had that happen? I'm thinking that I will have a small velcro wrap tethered to the aka at that point to secure the paddle shaft in its holder.

Also, in a separate incident, one member lost (broke?) the break-away bolt through one aka brace--I had the brace tethered on as suggested by Kayaking Bob, so we did not lose that. The person did not think he had hit anything. Any suggestions as to what happened? We replaced the pin on water without problem.

We also sustained severe damage to a dagger board tip (it delaminated) because of a collision w/ an oyster bar--that was just due to taking the wrong route through an area thick with oyster bars! It did not kick up like you would hope it would.

Finally, one sail had a batten tear through the bottom of the batten pocket. The small, plastic batten stop had come apart. Apparently, that allowed the batten to gradually wear out and poke through the batten pocket in the strong winds.

Well, there was one more thing. During the trip my Mirage drive came loose. I retighted the cams, but it then had a "click" as I pressed forward on the left pedal. Shortly, it began to creak! Sounds like a B-grade movie creaking door. Does it only when under pressure. Seems someone (Philip1el) has mentioned a similar problem on another thread recently. Simple, cursory inspection has not shown anything, but I have to look at it more closely.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Sounds as though it was a tough event?
It will be interesting to find out more about the breakages, you need events like this to prove designs and find out the weaknesses. All good stuff in my books.

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Either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!

That's why they announce a small craft advisory / warnings in those conditions. I hear Pelican was seeing 20-30 knots and higher when he had his issues. Sailing / boating in high winds is a challenge and dangerous. This is why the Coast Guard suggests against going out. Extra care and skill is required to sail in these conditions and quite honestly, issues with hardware do crop up in extreme conditions.

Beyond obvious wear on your boats (from previous outings) being a possible contributor to these failures... my take on the few items you listed:

Sail / batten cap Heavy luffing on the sail will cause damage to the materials and hardware. Maintaining tension on the sheet, furling excess sail is critical, but may not prevent serious luffing.

Lost Paddle Sailing in heavy seas require extra secure tie down of on deck equipment. Attention to hardware loosening over time is critical.

Failed shear bolt in aka brace Previous damage to this connection notwithstanding, pounding through swells exerts a heavy load on all components.

Delaminated dagger This is one of the real benefits of the new injected plastic boards... they are much tougher. Even if the board did kick up upon impact... damage / delamination is possible, but I suspect a side load during impact may have been the reason for it not kicking up.

I'm not entirely surprised by any of the things you saw considering this is out of four boats in these rough conditions. We highly advise our boat users to adhere to USCG or their local authority when considering going out. As far as Hobie is concerned... you take responsibility for yourself and any issues with your boat when ignoring these warnings.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Keith,
On the paddle, I too have had problems using the paddle keeper in less than perfect wind and waves so this is how we still carry them:



Notice the double-sided Velcro holding the shaft to the front aka cross brace. Keeping the blade against the hull stops the water from grabbing it too much.

I've also had the battens come through the bottom of sails. We now include checking the screws for tightness in our inspections.

Glad the aka brace leash worked for you.

On the Mirage drive, look for a crack in the plastic somewhere.

Other than that, how was the trip?

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Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

Matt, no argument w/ any of your comments. Of course, we take responsibility when we go out in difficult conditions. This year, with the powerful El Nino in the Pacific, it has been hard to find days that did not have some kind of weather warning. Of course, these trips are set up in advance. My tendency is to go--always--the weather will be what it will be. The one item that was surprising was the failed shear bolt in the aka brace. We had only traveled 2 miles on an inland bay when it disappeared. Also, that bolt was on our new boat--only used 8 days on 2 previous trips. My first boat has been doing these trips 2.5 yrs w/o any equipment failure (1 rudder pin).

Kayaking Bob--That is all good advice, thanks! Hey, we had a great trip. Frankly, I enjoy sailing in those conditions--4 days of fun sailing. As usual, the fishing was crap--but to be expected in heavy winds on the Gulf.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith,

It is good that you had the tether line in-place of second shear bolt but the lack of the second shear bolt may have contributed to the failure, as well as the weather conditions.

The shear bolts are designed to be a point of failure to protect other components from damage. Having only one and the tether, reduces the structure but gives you protection from loss of parts offshore.

It would be nice to see the compression and torsional stresses of one and two shear bolts to see the differences in numbers. I doubt that Hobie would advertise, "this is what will destroy an AI"...it would still be nice to see the data...without using my boat for testing.

Fly

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Fly, the tether was not using a shear bolt hole. The tether was in its own hole which I drilled in the brace. The second shear bolt is simply a spare--it does not contribute to the brace strength. Each of us carries additional shear bolts--they are cheap insurance against drunk drivers.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith,

Thanks for the heads-up. Important info for an adventure owner but AI renter.
Not that I doubted your word but I looked up the parts assembly manual and your right the second one hole is just a spare. The interior metal tube doesn't even reach the second hole.

Talk about being blind and dumb with a false sense of security. I now know when I own an AI/TI that I will have some holes to drill.

This just makes me ever more curious about what force causes the pin to fail since there is only one holding things together.

Earned a "McFry!" today.

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This shear bolt is a safety feature to prevent major structural failure due to ama impact primarily. If you run the ama into something you don't want to crack the aka or cross beam connections. Failure of the shear pin allows the ama to fold aft (or forward) to relieve the load from the impact. This failed shear pin may have been damaged before this sail or may have hit an object in the water. Hard to say.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

not surprised at most of those problems besides the crossbar breaking. I thought the new system was supposed to be a lot stronger, would love to see a pic of the break if ya got one.

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If your talking about the failure on Pelican's TI? On day one, he rescued two big guys and sailed them back to a hard beach landing. These guys layed on the tramps while sailing back in. Nick's boat was fully loaded and had just started the Ultimate Challenge (round Florida), so he had full load of gear, food, water... his bike too. I would suggest the boat saw some serious over load stress. I have not seen any details.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Chekika, in case you haven't seen it yet, here's the YouTube video of the incident.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERCQ_2PSWaE&feature=player_embedded#[/youtube]

Cheers go to Pelican (and his extremely overloaded/overstressed Hobie vessel) for not only succeeding in a difficult rescue at sea, but for managing to film the whole thing in the process! Big cheers to Pelican AND his Hobie TI.

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joanie / Hobie enthusiast: 4 H-14Ts, 2 Waves, FloatCat 75, 4 Adventure Islands, and my DUNE Tandem Island!
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . What can I say? I never met a Hobie I didn't like . . .

Having watched the Video of Pelican rescuing the two guys, I'd say there's every likelihood that the boat sustained some serious overload stress as Matt suggests.
I'm sure the two guys were extremely grateful and it is interesting to note that Pelican was a. able to rescue them with the TAI and b. that he was doing the trip/race one up fully loaded - which may mean I won't have to hang onto my AI when I get my TAI.
The biggest issue I think I'll have if travelling solo is managing the weight on land -we'll see...........

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Mickey
2016 AI Hibiscus
purchased NEW Nov 2021 - My 5th
Adventure Island Sailing since 2008

For the clicking check the moulding in the drive spine that receives the sprocket set screw, despite thinking i was being careful in screwing this down I must have overtensioned and split the moulding slightly. I glued it together temporarily and the clicking has eased off for the present.


Drive creaking under only under load, cams or cam working loose? Maybe (and I may be overly alarmist here and being Chekika youve probably already checked ) , an inspection of the cam pillars is in order

Hobie Paddle Leash, don't leave port without it!

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Fair Skies, Max.