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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:45 pm 
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Hi everyone.
Would really appreciate if someone can help me solve this issue on a 2017 TI. On my first trip ever in my brand new TI, the steering knobs suddenly became slack, and got more and more slack until it was difficult to steer. Had full movement on the rudder, but had to turn steering knob more and more to port or starboard to engage the rudder, until it was over 90 degrees off center while at full rudder. Have not had time to look at the lines inside the hull yet.
Someone has an idea what the problem is, and how to fix it?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Line tension is done at the rudder head. Left and right steering lines end at a port and starboard screw. These may have slipped from rudder loads. One key is to keep the rudder all the way down hard. Pull the down line hard and cleat it there. If this slips while sailing... take sailing loads off the rudder (sheet out or head up) then pull and cleat again. If the rudder slips aft in the housing you get progressively more load (weather helm) at the steering handles (tillers).

Place the steering handles in the middle of their range of motion. (Typically 20-30 degrees inboard) This is not pointing straight forward. Loosen the control lines at the the rudder... Move the rudder to the center position and tension the lines again.

http://static.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/Twist-n-Stow_Repair_Manual.pdf

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:17 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
Line tension is done at the rudder head. Left and right steering lines end at a port and starboard screw. These may have slipped from rudder loads. One key is to keep the rudder all the way down hard. Pull the down line hard and cleat it there. If this slips while sailing... take sailing loads off the rudder (sheet out or head up) then pull and cleat again. If the rudder slips aft in the housing you get progressively more load (weather helm) at the steering handles (tillers).

Place the steering handles in the middle of their range of motion. (Typically 20-30 degrees inboard) This is not pointing straight forward. Loosen the control lines at the the rudder... Move the rudder to the center position and tension the lines again.

http://static.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/Twist-n-Stow_Repair_Manual.pdf


Thank you for quick response Matt. It was quite obvious when I looked at the rudder head. I just had not tightened the screws enough, because I was afraid to damage the line.


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:49 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
The rudder lines will be much less likely to slip if you lead the line a full 360 degrees around the locking screw. The friction of the line on itself will not require as much tension on the screw.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:03 pm 
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New TI here in Guam...LOTS!!!!! Of steering issues....been back to the dealer twice now.

First— was misrigged , forward and rear handles not aligned.

Second and MOST worrisome....
Run out of REAR tiller control when underway. Rear tiller full right...rudder amidships.
Tiller full left....left rudder..
This has happened before I took it in to be fixed and again afterwards.


While on land rudder follows tiller. Not so underway.
(Yes rudder fully deployed down)

Taking back AGAIN to dealer....pain to say the least, and the ONE person they have is weak on knowledge of the Hobie to say the least. (Installed the covers backwards last time).
Should I ask the mechanic to disconnect the limiter line?
Love to fix myself as the one mechanic really doesn’t understand/ care/ etc.

Have yet to see a good diagram or PDF of the modern steering on the TI like there is for the old Twist and Stow.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Russ


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:10 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
If the handle is mounted on top of a "riser" and a single screw holds this together. You could disassemble and see if you have sheered the plastic on the riser. We have seen this when users are fighting controls in opposite directions or the rudder is not completely down and causes heavy steering loads. Or... maybe the screw came loose.

https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/2020_Tandem_Island_Manual_Kick_Up_Fins.pdf#page=13

You could remove the risers and use the shorter screws for the steering handles.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:01 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
If the handle is mounted on top of a "riser" and a single screw holds this together. You could disassemble and see if you have sheered the plastic on the riser. We have seen this when users are fighting controls in opposite directions or the rudder is not completely down and causes heavy steering loads. Or... maybe the screw came loose.

https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/2020_Tandem_Island_Manual_Kick_Up_Fins.pdf#page=13

You could remove the risers and use the shorter screws for the steering handles.



I actually ‘bent’ / sheared the plastic on one riser due to loads....so that isn’t a problem. Going to take it back to the dealer AGAIN today and will watch the repair/ fix. (Skeptical of a fix....twice now have been unable to safely turn the boat to the right).
Fine tuning the set screws at the rudder have been no help.
Think it might be a problem with ‘limiter’ interference.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:29 am 
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A sheared riser would skip and not hold the steering.

Get your cell camera and video a look around inside the hull while someone steers the system. Maybe see something inside going on?

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:32 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
A sheared riser would skip and not hold the steering.

Get your cell camera and video a look around inside the hull while someone steers the system. Maybe see something inside going on?



Brand new boat...so took it back to the supposed ‘dealer’ here....
Out of having the boat 6 weeks they have had it almost 3, and the two times i have used it is was DANGEROUS as it would not turn right....so the latest saga.....

The ‘dealer’ mechanic (singular) was there when I took it back this time....and we exercised the rudder.
Left turn, with resistance on the rudder, rudder seemed to have about 15-20 lbs of pressure exerted.
Right turn the rudder seemed to only have 2-5 lbs of pressure, and would go almost full deflection on the tiller with minimal pressure on the rudder.
(Rear tiller was not as ‘strong’ as forward tiller)

After 4 days, I finally got the call it was done.

Went to pick up....BUT this time I throughly exercised the system before leaving.

Same strong turning to the left, and stronger than before BUT still weaker to the right. Maybe 2/3rd the pressure from the left.
So rather than take the defective, and possibly still dangerous boat I declined to receive it.
The ‘dealer’ started making excuses about the lack of support they are receiving from Hobie, etc....
No diagrams. Vague instructions like “untie some of the knots”. Adjust in the water.

Any suggestions for to forward to this crack team here on Guam?

My next one is to have them remove the entire steering system, replace the lines (which appear to have many many knots in their length. And re-rig.

I am getting tired of having only the ama’s and aka’s to this boat.

I am also looking for a Hobie contact in the US. As calls to Australia are costly, even though it is closer.
Also looking for warranty contacts as this situation is becoming out of control.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:22 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
You are in the Australian market area, so they are the contact. You can email or use skype or WhatsApp to hold the costs of calls.

The system is pretty simple. It does include knots in the line between the handles to adjust the length and align the handles. From there the lines simply route to the rudder and alignment is simple adjustments at the rudder. The handles should be in their center of the steering sweep. Usually, a bit pointed inboard. The rudder centered... adjust the lines to be without slack. The control of the rudder on land should be effortless. If there is any resistance, there is something inside the boat that is fouling the lines. Look for foam blocks or anything you have in the hull that v=could be causing the binding.

Image

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:05 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
You are in the Australian market area, so they are the contact. You can email or use skype or WhatsApp to hold the costs of calls.

The system is pretty simple. It does include knots in the line between the handles to adjust the length and align the handles. From there the lines simply route to the rudder and alignment is simple adjustments at the rudder. The handles should be in their center of the steering sweep. Usually, a bit pointed inboard. The rudder centered... adjust the lines to be without slack. The control of the rudder on land should be effortless. If there is any resistance, there is something inside the boat that is fouling the lines. Look for foam blocks or anything you have in the hull that v=could be causing the binding.

Image


Sent email to the Hobie site via the link you provided. (No email reply yet).

The appears to NO resistance to rudder sweep when out of the water.
BUT will not turn right in the water.
SO....if someone holds the rudder when out of the water the to SIMULATE water resistance you then feel the difference in steering left and right.
[Something the supposed technician should have done/ known about, NOT the first time owner]
And yes according to the diagram, it is a VERY simple system. But what is on the diagram IS NOT a depiction of what is in the boat.
[I was a FAA mechanical compliance writer and understand mechanical engineering depictions. This diagram is closer to something someone put down on a napkin.]

Maybe Hobie should do a site visit to determine the viability of Ocean Reef as a dealer as I have received lots of similar complaints on the Kayak fishing FB site. The common theme is lack of product knowledge, support, charging for warranty work, and extremely poor customer service. Personally I have received more information from a dealer in the US than the one less than a mile from my residence.

I look forward to anyone from Hobie, US or AUS, to talk about the boat.
Anyone?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:02 pm 
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Drawings are sketches. There are no technical drawings of the system.

We are trying here... It is an unusual problem. Why would the boat being in the water cause a resistance difference? Static? Our under sailing loads?

Once again... Rudder pulled down hard and cleated down with tension on the down line. Check that the rudder does not come up by pulling on the rudder tip (out of the water or in shallow water) There should be a fair amount of resistance to the rudder coming up. Not holding down will add significant load to the tiller (weather helm).

Also sailing with a full sail in higher winds can do the same.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:48 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
Drawings are sketches. There are no technical drawings of the system.

We are trying here... It is an unusual problem. Why would the boat being in the water cause a resistance difference? Static? Our under sailing loads?

Once again... Rudder pulled down hard and cleated down with tension on the down line. Check that the rudder does not come up by pulling on the rudder tip (out of the water or in shallow water) There should be a fair amount of resistance to the rudder coming up. Not holding down will add significant load to the tiller (weather helm).

Also sailing with a full sail in higher winds can do the same.



Sorry to hear about no tech drawings. Are the Tandem Islands manufactured using the same sketches?

Water versus land....no difference other than water gives resistance to rudder movement left and right. The amount of force applied to the rudder from the tiller is very different depending on selection of left and right, and which tiller is being used.
Stronger force to left (from both tillers), weaker force to the right (and even weaker from the rear tiller).
Limiter line is now very slack.


And yes rudder is deployed full down, and is solid in that position. (The mechanic here appears to have worked on it first with it up...indicative of their lack of knowledge).

AS per the weather helm....only an issue when turning to the right. So its not an issue of too much sail. It is an issue of rudder rigging.


Monday here and the boat is still at the ‘dealer’, now almost a full week.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:31 am 
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No these are just general function sketches we made for forum use. The factory has never had detailed drawings for kayak production. This is more art than engineering. They recently started doing more of that due to the wide variety of products being built and becoming more complicated.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:28 pm 
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Matt-
My boat has now been, and is still at the ‘dealer’, 4 weeks out of the 7 since it was delivered.
As this dealer has shown to be anything but helpful what is another route I can embark on?
After paying premium price i would like to use the boat in something other than a left turn.
(It has been in their yard longer than in mine.)


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