Weather and Lee Helm on a T-2 - an asymmetry puzzle!

I have noticeable weather helm on my 2015 T-2's port tack yet noticeable lee helm on starboard tack!
Any ideas? I don't think the rudders are side-specific; my shrouds are equal length as far as I can tell; mast is vertical laterally (but raked to the sixth hole down on the side stays); the hulls and tramp are at 90 degrees when boat is viewed from behind/front; crew position is similar for both tacks; rudder rake is not adjustable I believe.
I may be comparing a close reach on the starboard tack with a beam-to-broad reach on the port tack here, but I should think there would be similar helm behavior on either tack regardless?

there may be a difference in rake angle on each rudder. find a fixed point to measure from, such as a line through the gudgeons.

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

May be a rudder rake issue or a problem with the rudder foil shape. We have at time seen asymmetrical rudders and if so, would do just as you are experiencing. Take a look at the foil shape of both rudders. One side could be flatter.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Check shroud lengths and verify there isn't something asym either at the hounds or chainplates. If nothing else works, change the mast rake on each side until the boat is acting normal (a tiny bit of weather helm) on both tacks.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

OH, and as far as your last statement goes, it DOES matter what your point of sail is. You should adjust helm only for being close hauled. You should have a little weather helm when close hauled on either tack. When I say little, I mean you can take your hand off the tiller and count 5 mississippis before you have to use the tiller to fall off again.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

Thanks to all ... I'll try all the suggestions and see if I can find the culprit.

still haven't solved the problem - rudder angles to hull, rudder shape, rudder "alignment," and keel alignment look the same for both hulls.
I have noticed that the weather helm on port tack is significantly stronger than the lee helm on starboard tack?

At this point you need a new set of eyes. Ask your dealer to go for a sail with you and let him drive to feel the helm difference.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

I still suspect that the rudders are more flat or concave on one side... both the same. Good foil on one side... flatter on the other would so this. Sight from the rudder tip looking up towards the head. Note the foil shape on either side. Should be symmetrical. You can use a tool to measure the foil and compare to the other side...

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

One more thing to check, when you have weather helm, is the leeward rudder staying all the way down/forward? Can you use a bungee to hold it in place (temporary). If it kicks up even a bit, it will change tiller load significantly. To measure starting rake, place a straight edge on the transom and mark each rudder. Are they equal. A 1/4" is a big difference. This is why a partially kicked up rudder will really impact tiller load.

Thanks, I will try looking along the rudder length for concavity/convexity differences.
The lee helm on starboard tack has also been associated with a lee rudder (on port side of boat) that has a tendency to lift - so maybe it is lifting a fraction of an inch on a run - because it often does lift about 45 degrees which I obviously have to snap back down - windier conditions mostly. A 1/4 inch lift would be hard for me to notice but its definitely something I can watch out for once the season starts again in mid May.

Tighten the bolt that it pivots on. Do not leave the rudder partially down. Always all the way up or all the way down to not flex open then housing which can weaken the hold down power over time.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Yep, tightened that a bit at the end of the season to stop the lift-up at higher speeds! I think the lee helm persisted after that, so I still have to check the above suggestions. Thx