squaretop aftermarket sails

I've been noticing guys with these new aftermarket squaretop sails on some old boats like 14s and 18s. I see them on beat up old beach boats. Why are people going to these sails? I can only see drawbacks. I can see adding a spinnaker, but the squaretop main seems like a ridiculous expense They cost more than stock, the material doesn't hold up as well as stock hobie sails, and the boats do not have the controls for correct sail shape. My first set of hobie sails lasted 30 years, why change?
The only thing that I can figure is that people want their 198os beach boat to look like a modern tiger, even tho it will never sail like a modern boat. Is it just looks? Do these people have more money than sense? What am I missing. They can't race one design because of the rules. I never see them race in rating races anyway, they mostly race in for another beer on the beach. People say they make the boats sail faster upwind. The drawbacks don't seem worth it to me. What am I missing.

If you own a boat you have more money than sense. My father used to say if it Floats, Fly's, or a four letter word also beginning in F, that you should rent it. Fortunately I didn't heed that advice and I have a boat, but no airplane.

A square top added a ton of performance to my friends H18SX. New motor, old chassis. HCE is selling the 14 power, that comes with a loose footed square top main. If there wasn't something to gain, then nobody would be doing it.

A squaretop can add 10% or 15% more power to the sail .... is a "vertical cut" so it is also a much more "tunable" sail. All you really need is increase the downhaul ratio and maybe increase the mainsheet from 7X1 to 8X1 ratio.

When I purchased my P19 it was a "Pinhead" now it is a P19MX ie: squaretop ... I like it .... Its made of "Pentex" I'm concidering having the next one constructed of "Racing Dacron" though.

Harry

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

I purchased my '70-71 Hobie 14 one year ago for $425. It has solid hulls with a 20+ year old sail, which is still in relatively good shape.

After last summer on that old cat, I remembered sailing as a kid and was hooked. I never plan to race that cat except for the annual lake regatta and when I compared the price of new Hobie made sails to a pentex square head sail made by Whirlwind; the decision was easy, better performance for less money. Admittedly, the new pentex sail won't last as long as dacron, but hey what the heck.

I don't plan to beat the Hobie 17 around the corner, but will do my best until the day my wife and I talk about the natural evolution and progression to a Fx-One or Tiger.

Definitely not an ego thing. I think?

soulcat01. Yes you are missing something. Like better performance (going faster than stock on and off wind). Like better materials (Pentex vs Mylar). Cost is about par with Hobie sails. You can not class race with them, but I have a H17Sport and there is no race class for my boat anyway. I bought my square top over a year ago, still have the stock sail, but will probabily never go back to it again. My friend saw the performance difference I was getting and got a square top for his 14 Turbo.

I just did a little research. squaretop for a hobie 16 is $975.00 and a stock white main is $775.00. $200 for a sail that has more power made from materials that don't last as long as the classic dacron, and there is no chance of racing one-design, you have to get new battens, and add more pulleys and parts to the downhaul and mainsheet. How much does all of the upgrade parts cost? I think the dacron that hobie uses is heaver than even the aftermarket 5 oz sails. I still don't see it. I think my boat has enough power as it is.

Why would you assume that a custom sail doesn't last as long as a stock Hobie sail? Not that it matters to me either way- I'm a one design racer, so I have no choice. But, I see no reason why a sail built with modern materials shouldn't last as long if not longer than a stock Hobie sail - assuming you handle the sail properly. Modern laminates like X-ply and pentex don't suffer from delamination like the mylars and x-plys from the '80's and mid- '90's did. And they should retain their original shape better than a sail built using horizontal cut dacron. And a modern sail cut which incorporates a powerful downhaul would very likely be more tunable than the sails that were designed 25 to 35 years ago.

For an un-battened jib, I suspect Dacron is still the best material because it can handle the flapping. But if I were looking for a new mainsail and not concerned about one-design racing, I would certainly look into a custom sail built from modern materials.

sm

I didn't assume. The guys here that sail infusions and Tigers here say that the pentex won't last as long as dacron. Anyone say anything different? I just want the most for my money when I buy a new sail this summer.

Dacron sails don't last as long as you'd think. 3-4 seasons on a main and it won't cut it in A fleet anymore. For a hack like me though I probably wouldn't know the difference. But I will say that I had an old sail that I thought was in really good shape, then I bought a brand new boat and couldn't believe how much difference there really was from my old boat and the new one. That was also a culmination of things, and not just sails, but I think the sails were probably the greatest contibutor to the gain in performance.

soulcat: what kind of boat are we talking about?
My Getaway came with a square top main, I like
it, better than the pinhead on the 17 i had. but I
windsurf so fat heads are the norm. If you haven't
yet, check out whirlwind sails, I've heard good things
about him. I got a new sail for my 17, over $1200
mylar class required. don't make a choice on preconceived
opnions unless you try it out..doug

What do you like better about it? How can you tell between a Getaway and a 17. That's like apples and oranges. Its a hobie 18. I just dont want to buy into a fad and later be sorry. it seems like i will have to change alot of hardware to make it work as harry said. I just priced new pullys for the downhaul and main and got up to about $500.

The 18SX of my friends, he didn't change anything. I think he's using the 7:1 main setup, and the standard downhaul.

There is performance to be gained. Whether or not it's worth the added expense is up to you.

It all depends on what you're looking for. Both are legitimate construction materials. I think an analogy would be the comparison between fiberglass and carbon fiber hulls. Carbon fiber is well suited to handle sailing abuse, but must be babied on the beach. Fiberglass can handle beach abuse, but gives somewhat lower performance on the water.

Modern sail cloths give higher performance on the water and should maintain their shape longer than dacron sails, but you don't want to crumple or crease them.

sm

Jeez, buy the friggin' Stock main with all the colors and race one design and keep them for 30 years(don't really keep them that long). If you're not a SERIOUS open class racer, than why do it at all? Karls buddy loves his square top. I have told him a million times to get a spare sail so he can race one design with all the other guys, but he won't.
Order from your local hobie dealer (if you don't have a local hobie dealer, contact any of the 3 dealers lurking on this forum and they'll get you set up, then get the bitchen new red/white/grey and, trade up every 3-4 years like Karl the Hack says. You'll be happier with what you know.

Thats exactly what im going to do. The cost and trouble and limiting my ability to race someday doesnt make sense. Ill buy an aftermarket sail on the used market after the fad wears off and experiment on somene elses dime.