Proud new owner of an older H16 - a few questions

Hello,
After months of debate, searching, reading and posting questions, I just took the plunge and got a 1981 H16. I looked at a lot of other used boats before I decided on it. It was definitely in the best shape of all the boats I looked at. From everything I can tell it is in sound structural shape. It does need some minor cosmetic work. This forum has been terrific for helping to guide me and give advice.

After going through with the owner his procedure for stepping the mast and getting the standing rigging up, I have a couple of questions.
First, with the rigging once the mast was up it seemed like there was a fair amount of "play" in the shroud lines. Is this typical? On my 470 I am used to the shroud line being pretty taught on the standing rigging.

Second, how do I tell if the mast has a "comp tip" on it. There is a "joint" on the top of the mast but the front of the mast in that area seems like metal and the back like some sort of plastic. Does it matters if there isn't a "comp tip", we really don't sail anywhere with powerlines.

Third, the person we bought it from stepped the mast with a assist device that hooks into the winch, forstay and trap lines. It seemed to work really well but A LOT of pressure seems to be put on the pin at the base of the mast the pin itself was pretty bent. I am concerned about this potentially leading to a failure. Is there a better method and do I have anything to be concerned about?

Last, with the standing rigging the mast seemed like it was raked back pretty far. It does appear that the forestay could be adjusted more tightly. I have read various posts but I still don't get a sense as to what the rake should be on the standing rigging versus running rigging.

Again, thanks in advance to any guidance.

Yes, this is typical. Rig tension is set with the jib halyard. Without the jib on the boat, the rig can be very "floppy". There are various schools of thought on rig tension while sailing. I tend to go with a looser rig, but others like to have theirs drum tight.


A Comptip is pretty obvious. There's a joint just above the hounds (where the shrouds attach) and the top 6' of the mast is black fiberglass with a plastic sail track.


Since it sounds like you have it, it's a moot question. However, it's more likely you would run into powerlines on shore than you would on the water. Most people killed by hitting powerlines were stepping their mast or moving their boat around a parking lot.


If you're going to use that system, it helps to have someone on the trampoline lift the mast a little to get it started. That way, you're not putting a lot of pressure on the pin. However, I've always found such systems to be overly complex and unneccesary for anybody in reasonable physical shape. Just hook up the shrouds, pin the mast at the mast step link, but a bearing chip in the cup of the mast step, and make sure the shrouds are clear. Stand at the rear of the tramp, pick up the mast while holding the forestay against it, then walk it up. Hand the forestay off to a buddy who's standing in front and have them pin the forestay. Remove the stepping pin and your done. No complicated rigging and it takes all of 30 seconds to accomplish.


Like I said, rig tension and mast rake is set with the jib halyard. You can't judge the mast rake without the sails on the boat. Even so, the boat will have much more mast rake than your 470. Do you have the low-profile mainsheet system? (only two blocks - a lower triple ratchet and an upper triple)

The forestay serves 2 purposes. One is to hold the mast up until the jib is up. The jib wire becomes the forestay and the other one will go slack as you tighten the jib. The second purpose is to keep the jib from blowing around as you raise it or lower it. There is a plastic clip on the top of the jib that hooks onto the forestay. A lot of people don't bother to hook it on but I do.

Raising the mast is best done as described by Mbounds. Make sure the shrouds and hiking lines won't get caught under the tramp frame as you raise it and have someone push back on the base of the mast to toggle the link as the mast goes vertical. I usually raise mine alone and have to hesitate part way up and bounce the mast a little to get it toggle.

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Howard

I have a question to add to this topic.

I didn't know how to ask this befor e- but will try.

My first boat - I didn't know how to setup the mast - but just did it as seemed logical and all went well.

My 2nd boat - I tried the same thing and have a nightmare of a time. We eventually gave up and pulled the boat from the ramp to the dock and managed to do it while standing on the dock (which is much higher than ground level).

Here's the problem. The mast goes into the (mast step metal guide/accessory thing - that says 14/16 on it)
pin goes in (on 16 of course). SAME on both boats.

But when raising the mast on the newer (2nd boat) this silver step up guide thing swings up on the pin hinge... and in doing so, the BALL? on the bottom of the mast doesn't go into the mast mounting pocket. (sorry for my own terminoligy here).

The ball on the bottom of the mast hits the front edge of the pocket and won't allow the mast to go up the last 3-4 ft. What needs to be done at this point is for someone to pound or kick the bottom of the front of the mast back so that the ball goes into the pocket. This appears to all happen because the little mast step guide (thing that says 14/16 on it)
pivots up, What's strange is - my first boat (older) which looks exactly the same doesn't do this and steps up without this pivoting problem.

Any ideas?

II can't say for sure, but I think this is a common problem on the 16. I know that I deal with it and have read about many other Hobie sailors that do also. Its just a matter of raising to a point then having someone push back on the bottom of the mast. Some guys I beleive use a bungie around the base of the mast to provide a little pulling force in order to help prevent this. I have never really found it to be that much of a problem. I get the mast most way up and kinda jerk the ebottom backward enoungh to properly seat the mast base. Why you have such a difference in the 2 boats is beyond me. Maybe someone else can give you better information.

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'88 Nationals Blue
Hobie Alter Signature Model
Sail #11

Hobie Mirage Classic

Yep, get it to just about the point of contact and push the bottom down in such a way that the ball falls into the step. Now, I believe that Catsailor.com has a newer version of the step link for about $35.00 that should solve the problem all together.


Sam

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Sail Like you Have a Pair
Bluish gray 73 - 83 H16
Super Nice Yellow 84 H18

I had that problem on my '82 H16. I have resorted to being one of those guys that use a BRB (Big, Rubber, Bungie) to apply rearward force on the bottom of the mast. This will drop the ball right into the cup for ya. I just learned how to add an image. Hope this helps.

http://s737.photobucket.com/albums/xx15 ... 9_0017.jpg

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Mono slugs of various sizes and shapes
H 14 About 15 years ago
H 16 1982

Making Wake on A No Wake Lake!!!!!!

I've found in my experiences that attempting to raise the mast from too low a position can cause the mast ball not to seat in the base. After the mast is almost up, extending your hands upward will alow the bottom of the mast to seat downard in more of a vertical position until it is in it's full forward position.

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Happy Sailing,

David

David - that might be it... the only difference between the two boats is the one that works right (mast goes in hole) has a tighter vinyl tramp and rope lacing. The one that give me problems has mesh and bungee lacing (I suspect we sink down into the tramp) and this makes for a lower hand position on the mast. I did resort to the bungee around the base (was all I could think of at the time) I see others have done the same. Luckily - once up - I leave them up all summer. But found this frustratingly strange... sinking down into the mesh/bungee laced trap probably made for lower grip on the mast which made the top a bit heavier - which then makes the bottom of the mast LIFT UP which is what's causing the problem.

thanks

I'm almost sixty and solo about twice a week. When raising my mast with the step link hinge, I raise the mast most of the way with both hands and while holding up the mast with my right hand, I reach down with my left hand and pull back on the mast to get the ball into the socket and continue raising the mast with my right hand. It is sort like raising a long pole that you do not want the bottom to kick out on you.

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Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

I got this mast mod from one of the poster a while back. I did this to my mast base and used 2 small phillip head screwdrivers when stepping. By drilling a hole for the second hole (H14) and use a screwdriver as a pin (easier to pull out too), it keeps the mast base from lifting when stepping. It worked great ! Am able to lift the mast smoothly without the anticipated jerk from the mast. Just make sure you measure twice and drill once when drilling the second hole. A picture is attached hopefully it shows up.

http://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz33 ... eHoles.jpg

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82 HB-16

I see Mbounds posting the mast base mod picture. I'm guessing it was your idea on drilling the second hole. It worked great! I'm able to solo stepping my mast with no anxiety of the mast jerking and fighting to get the ball into the mast base. MANY Thanks !!!

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82 HB-16

No - can't take credit for it. I just posted the photo you linked to.

I've been stepping Hobie 16 masts for 36 years - for me, it's just a matter of technique. I don't do any special mods.