squaretop aftermarket sails

Soulcat

For me I was able just to change my downhaul system by increasing the ratio (# of times up-down) on my system I moved the Triple Harken Micro down to the bottom ... and used two double Micros attached to the sail so I had only to purchase two Harken Micro blocks.

For the Mainsheet Block Stack I increased it from 7X1 to 8X1 to give me "finer" control on opening/closing the sq top and I also have "rotator cuff" issues w/ my right shoulder (I quess I'm starting to wear out). You can sail a square top using a 7X1 system ... and remember on the P19 it is a much larger sail then the H18, so that was part of the reason too ... you'll be fine w/ a 7X1 system on the H18

When I origonally purchased the set from Randy Smythe both jib and main were made of Pentex ... one blowing day at Rehobeth Bay SC I started w/ a jib and ended the day w/ a "paint tarp" ... it was amazing how in one day of flogging it destroyed the jib ... but it was two years old w/ some serious hours on it w/ usually novice crew sailing w/ me and it was SERIOUSLY BLOWING. The main has held up well. But the new jib I had constructed w/ "racing dacron".

Part of the issue is history ... for years "Hobie" was making "trash" sails for the H18 ... the quality was horrible ... you had to have them immiadately re-cut to make them correct.

BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE NOW!!!

I finally purchased a set for my H18 when I ressurected her from behind the shed to sail/race w/ my then 11yr old niece Megan. I'm VERY PLEASED w/ the quality of the "Hobie" sails ... (my compliments to the sailmakers) My only issue is that I wanted MY old sail #'s on my new sail as I have had those #'s from 1985 ... that would make them "custon sails" and cost significatley more $$$$'s, so I ordered basic white ... no #'s ... made tracings of my old #'s and got some sticky back cloth and made my own numbers (in "Blue" .... everyone knows blue is the fastest color there is!!!)

Go either way you wish ... just enjoy and have fun!!!

Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Let me chime in as my 18 is very modified. Class racing for the 18 is dead in most areas with less than 5 boats showing up most of the time. This means your racing open, like it or not. My boat still has a standard mast and sails available. The conversions I made were, replacing the mast with a SX stick(29'6" height), buying a used Tiger main, increasing downhaul, replacing jib setup with self tacker and Tiger jib(again used), adding Tiger spin and midpole snuffer system. My boat goes to weather faster than a stock 18 and close to Tiger speed. Downwind the nut behind the tiller screws it up too often to compare. At this point I have less than $4k in the whole deal, trailer included. One Tiger hull is more than that.

Bottom line is.....the squaretop is faster and cooler looking than a pin top. My '82 boat looks like it was designed in this decade. I will never go back to stock and slow my progression, or the progression of my boat down.

It only makes sense to improve the boat as parts are replaced.

Ok, I gotta chime in on a point that has been incorrectly made on this forum.

Hobie 18 racing is NOT DEAD. Granted, there are SOME area's where the 18 fleet is not active.

However, there are other areas of the country where the Hobie 18 Fleet is ALIVE AND WELL, and actually on a bit of an upswing.

Division 5 has a strong and active Hobie 18 fleet, as does Division 4. Brian Golumbeck is doing a yeomans job of reviving the Hobie 18 fleet in Florida. Texas has a good group of Hobie 18 sailors, and the same can be said for the northeast area of the country.

The 2006 Hobie 18 Nationals in Texas, and the 2007 Hobie 18 Nationals in New York were the best attended Hobie 18 Nationals in the past 6 or 7 years.

We had a fleet of 18's at the Midwinters East in Panama City for the first time in 6 or 7 years.

The Hobie 18 forum HERE is VERY active and getting more and more active.

If some of you guys predicting the demise of the class would come out and race with us not only would it strengthen the class, it would make you better sailors.

If your only focus is on straight line speed you are really missing what sailing is all about. Sailing is very seldom a drag race, it is more or a road race on a Lemans course.

Quite honestly, if all you are focused on is being the fastest reacher i'll probably still beat you on a reach most of the time because you have narrowed your scope of experience so much that you have missed the finer points of sailing the boat.

One more thing about sails. The Hobie Factory sails have noticeably improved over the past few years. Dacron sails last very well if properly cared for. I have a main that I have been racing hard, ( 30 days or more a year) for over 5 years, that is still in very good condition and shapes VERY nicely. The unbattened 18 jib is another story. I replace mine every two years. Not because it is worn out, but because, after two years of hard racing it gets a little stretched out and the boat does nto seem to point as well. I Feel that after two solid months (60 days) of hard racing it makes good sense to replace it.

Hey, if you want a square top to play with, go for it, I completely understand the desire to tweak and tune and hotrod your boat. Lord knows I spent enough time and money doing that to cars. But don't turn your back on class racing. There is a lot of fun to be had doing that TOO.

Come on all you 18 sailors out there, come out and play with us, you'll learn how to make your boat go faster on all points of sail, be better sailors, and you might even make some new friends in the bargain.

With your help, The Hobie 18 Nationals in Harrison Hot Springs, BC, could be the biggest and best Hobie 18 Nationals in the last 8 years.

Stephen

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

Heres proof that there is 18 racing at least where this guy is. I cant wait for his reply to my other question. Theres a good active fleet here I just dont know how to race that well.



Seems to me he should get an 18 and race himself.


Thats incredible that you can make your 18 go almost as fast at a tiger. how close. Thanks for the input but I dont want a new mainsail to turn into a $4000 conversion. I just ordered my new main and cot my old number. it wasnt the cost of a custom main harry it was just $50 charge a little lower than the aftermarket main numbers would have been.

To Mr Soulcat

That is GREAT!!! I know you will like the new sails ... Take the time to "tune" the mast to the new sails as they WILL be different from the ol' rags you had!!! (HA HA HA) and shape/tune the battens also!!!!


To MattMiller/Hobie

Thats really good news that you have changed the policy about the sail numbers ( did you read my post several months ago?) My sail #'s are my identity ... I've had them since 1985 ... I quess the H18 class is different from the H16 class in this reguard. ( now if I could only get a MED Blue replacement tramp to match the rest of my boat as that what's come with it origonally... I had to settle for a "grey" one). And I'll repeat what I said earlier "THE NEW SAIL QUALITY IS EXCELLENT"!!!! (that's one of the reasons I took my boat apart for 8-10 years ... I needed new sails and was "pissed off" that I would have to have them re-cut before being able to use them!!!!


To "North Carolina"

I saw the picture you posted of your boat ... it is really "sharp" looking ... you had me going as I knew they were H18SE hulls/platform ... but everything above that was different! Next, come on up to our area either as a H18-modified or H18SE, we have both "OPEN" events w/ CRAC or "Hobie Points" events in Div 11. The Division 11 events have a VERY strong Fleet w/ some of the best sailors in the country competing in it!!! We usually have 6-10 boats at most events ... 12 or more at the bigger events!!!

The "Bouy" events I would recommend:
OPEN: Rock Hall YC, June 20th, 21st & 22nd , Rock Hall Md
Hobie Points: Wildwood Classic Cup, Aug 16th &17th , Wildwood NJ
Rock Hall "Hobie Points Regetta" Sept 27th & 28th

The distance event:
The Statue of Liberty Race ("the Statue" race)

All of these events have on-site camping ... yes we are allowed for the first time to camp on the beach in Wildwood at Morey's Amusement Pier ... AWESOME event!!! there we will have a LARGE fleet!!! The "Statue Race" is truely unique ... as you race from Sandy Hook NJ-up to-around-back to Sandy Hook ... and YOU WILL NOT BE THE SAME AFTER YOU SEE THE LADY LIBERTY UP CLOSE CIRCLING HER!!!

So you can see the H18 class is alive and well here in the Mid-Atlantic region

And Finally ... I had the good fortune and GREAT pleasure of competing against Stephen at the 08' H18 NA's last year ... and if you were to race him ... well let's put it this way ... even w/ a "faster" boat I would still bet on Stephen!!! He is an AWESOME sailor but more then that he is a true gentleman ... and I can not wait to race against him the next time and have him give/teach me some more "lessons"!!!


To Stephen,

I have a second interview on Monday for a "good" job ... that Glenn set up for me ... my "pard" is looking out for me and your prayers helped also ... wish me luck

Sail Flat, Sail Fast
Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

The "Bouy" events I would recommend:
OPEN: Rock Hall YC, June 20th, 21st & 22nd , Rock Hall Md
Hobie Points: Wildwood Classic Cup, Aug 16th &17th , Wildwood NJ
Rock Hall "Hobie Points Regetta" Sept 27th & 28th

The distance event:
The Statue of Liberty Race ("the Statue" race)>>>>>>

We met Ken, Mark and Randy at MWE so we will be coming to Wildwood with the 16.

They handed us our ..s, so we realized that Div. 11 is where you have to go to get GOOD at this.

When is the SOLR? It might be fun to do it on the H20.

I would love a chance to race with other 18s but NC is right in our area the class is dead. On the other hand the Statue of Liberty race(2007) was the first race I ever did and they would not let me singlehand my 18 which is how I normally sail. I wound up singlehanding my 16 which I believe is a better open class boat for racing. My number is 73.7 the 18 is 71 but i still beat the 18 boat for boat. I guess my point is why does it have such a lower number than a 16 .

Thank you for the compliments about Div11 ... there are some very good sailors in my Division and they are wonderful people to boot ... and likewise in the"Open" class. I have been fortunate to have people like Wally Meyers, Rob Sterling, John Flanigan, Jimmy Glanden, Rich McViegh, Randy&Janet Payne, Kenny Hilk and to many other to mention who have made me sail beyond my ability and make me better and that is only the H16 class For the H18 class people like Tim Stater, Mark Scheckshure, Reed Hayward ... took me under their wing and taught me the ins and outs of the H18.

So you are correct ... if you wish to sail against some of the best you need to come to Div11 and race.

"The Statue" race is scheduled for July 5th this year I believe at Sandy Hook Sailing Center , their website is www.shbc.org, you can verify tha dates there.

I would not recommend single-handing in "the Statue" race because when you are inside the Verrozanno Bridge it is a TOTALLY different world ... strong current ... all other boats are bigger ... ferries are everywhere w/ rights ... but still it is an AWESOME event to do. I've done it on my H18mag ... Mystere 6.0 w/spin ... P19MX ... so you will enjoy it on a H20 ... but Rich McViegh won it one year on his H16 .... personally I like the faster boats ... more beer drinking time after the race!!!!

So come on up ... all events are listed on the Div11 websites or WWW.sailCRAC.com

Hope to see you
Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Ok Soulcat, it is as I surmised. You are obviously someone new to the racing scene with little experience. As someone who has raced everything from windsurfers to multis to PHRF since I was 7, with wins and places in each catagory, welcome to the world of racing. Try to tone down the "holier than thou" until you have actually pitted your skill and boat against others in this sport. After a few 9 hour, grueling Mug Races, against every type of boat imaginable, let us know what you think of racing. Racing is racing, either class or open. Get your boat out on the water and compete, not just flaming people online.

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H18 #4549 Catasaurus

Deleted

<<<<<After a few 9 hour, grueling Mug Races, against every type of boat imaginable, let us know what you think of racing.>>>>

It was only 7 1/2 hours for us! My second Mug Race. I do it every 35 years.

I think we passed you about the Shands bridge.

Your boat looks great. You did a good job.

"Tallahassee Lassie"

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Jack Woehrle
Wave #100
H20 #287 "Tallahassee Lassie" (down in FLA)

Gentleman, let us make sure we observe the highest decorum at all times please. I am not the moderator, and I don't want to make a citizens 'Flamming Warning' on anyone, but I'll do it, yessir, I will. We're all buds here.

Xanderwess youre right. didnt mean to stir the pot so much. I just want to get the info to make a good choice. seems like everyone wants to defend their purchase of the aftermakket sails as faster. Every bit of information that I see is not the case. Im not trying to cause trouble but look at the results I found.

http://www.rudderclub.com/Mug2008bytime.pdf

What is the very last 18 on the first pg. Doesnt quite support the squaretop as faster on an old boat does it. I just bought my sail so im done with this thread. Thanks for all the help.

One more observation: your Portsmouth number will need to be modified when using a non-class approved main. The Portsmouth instructions on the US Sailing website read:

All ratings for ONE-DESIGN and OPEN CLASS racing are based on boats being equipped with class approved sails and other class approved equipment. Each competitor shall declare ALL non class approved sails....

The modifications are as follows:

For non-class legal mainsail, of same sail area or less than class legal mainsail (formerly square top adjustment) 0.995

For non-class legal mainsail, of greater sail area* than standard main 0.980

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Arie
H 16 107568

Dude, chill. Trust me a modern sail design is going to be faster. What do all the new HP boats run? There isn't a adjustment for time correction because its slower. It's not some Gov't conspiracy generated to con you into buying an inferior product.

Using one boat, from one race finishing at the back doesn't mean much. Did they have trouble? Was there a hack like me at the tiller? Got caught in a lobster pot? Who knows?


Another thing, after re-reading this whole thread there isn't anyone who mentions getting a square top and not liking it. OD is great IF you have someone to race with. While there is pockets of certain boats here and there, (regardless of what off boat you have), not everyone can race OD.