Eagle fish finder

Just inherited an older model Eagle Fish ID 128 new in box.

Anyone use this before? Are they pretty good? I fish mostly fresh water lakes in the 2-3' up to 40' depth. Would it be a good FF for the foam block gooped in hull of my PA or should I mount the older system transducer outside like on a standard boat?
Any idea just how old a finder this is?

Thanks

Troutbum;
I see that the user manual for the Eagle Fish ID 128 unit was copyrighted in 1998. Doesn't mean your unit is that old though. The transducer itself looks to be very similar in outward appearance to the Lowrance transducer that I just mounted in my new PA.
Took it for a 4 hour run last Sunday and I have no complaints whatsoever. Marked fish (with and without fish ID), thermocline, differing bottom types, depth, temp was off the expected several degrees with a hull mount, all of the above worked in 100+ feet as well as shallow water.
I did opt to use the Lowrance recommended two part epoxy (went to a local marine shop and they ordered the epoxy), let that cure several days, setup the foam dam and filled in the remaining space with marine goop.

Before going for the permanent transducer mount (either through hull or over the side) you can get a good idea of what to expect of a good hull mounted tranducer install by making a temporary dam out of clay or plumber's putty, simply fill the temp dam with water and go for a test run. You'll have to rig the transducer to be stable somehow within the temp dam (tie wrap to the sail mast or similar). With the temporary dam test done you can stay on the water and simply hang your transducer over the side (keep t-ducer bottom horizontal somehow) and you have both methods for comparison.
Personally I'm much happier with the clean shoot through hull t-ducer mount. No worries about the transducer being damaged.

CBull

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March 2010 Hobie Pro Angler

CBull

Excellent, have to see if I can peel away for a test run this weekend

Thanks

I have the xds 50 lorance...the same as the eagle model you are talking about...but I have never been able to be certain I could mark fish. I have remounted the transducer in the boat 3 times, thinking I had maybe air bubbles under it, which supposedly reduces it accuracy. At any rate I do get good depth readings, and temp is accurate after the hull reaches the water temp. I get frustrated, trying to see fish. I am told the slower you go, the more dramatic the fish bow's should show up, but I have never seen a fish arch as I had expected....any thoughts?
You know I can't get anyone experienced in the use of a ff, as there isn't room in the boat???

Ron,
I'd suggest taking some time and get a good test run that should involve seeing fish arches or actual fish ID'd by running an over the side temporary transducer mount. The temp t-ducer mount will have to end up being stable and with the bottom side of the t-ducer parallel to the surface of the water, but beneath the water's surface. Run at cruising speed, slow and dead stop.
As far as really knowing that you are over fish, you may be most successful if you can find a willing fellow fisherman with his\her own boat and a properly setup FF\t-ducer. Have him\her mark some fish for you and you then slide over top of the same school and see what you can or cannot see on your FF at that point. Myself I'm lucky in that I have several clear water lakes nearby in which I can see panfish and bass mostly by eye, I then slide over top of actual fish and go about referencing them on the FF.

It may also come down to knowing how much automated versus manual settings you have going on within your FF. You may want to play with differing combinations of auto and manual settings while you are over fish.
I do see some false positive fish ID marks when fish ID is partially or fully enabled on my Lowrance X50 DS unit. Sometimes you are better off disabling Fish ID and watch for those arches. However "balls" of bait will show up as a blob, but use that as a key to find the blob edges, blob bottom and those individual arches, hopefully rather large arches.

Time to wet several lines and really verify what your FF "sees" (hears).

CBull

Ron,

I found some interesting text on another forum that may be helpful with the more technical aspects of mounting the transducer with an epoxy product rather than a silicone product;

"The idea is to make the small area of hull under the transducer act like part of the transducer's face. When the transducer starts vibrating at its operating frequency the hull must also vibate at the same instant and at the same frequency. The hull must also stop vibrating the instant the transducer stops vibrating. When the echoes from each sound pulse return back to the boat that small area of hull must be able to transfer even weak echoes to the transducer through a direct mechanical bond.

Manufacturers recommend installing shoot-through-hull transducers with epoxy that dries rock-hard because the harder the bond between t-ducer and hull, the better the sound transmition will be. If you use an adhesive that is soft, spongy, flexible or at all pliable, the adhesive itself will absorb some of the sound instead of passing it directly between the hull and transducer. This results in a sound loss somewhere between very little and 100%, depending on how soft and thick the adhesive is. This, of course, translates to a loss in depth penetration and target separating detail somewhere between very little and 100%."

Further reading within same forum states that signal loss was a much larger problem years ago, before today's newer generation of FF technology brings more than adequate signal to the table and allows for some loss of signal and still have adequeate signal levels recieved by the FF to show what the fisherman needs to see. The issue becomes; is your FF receiving adequate signal?

If the answer is yes my FF is getting adequate signal or I think my FF is getting adequate signal, then the most likely thing to try is to tweak some aspects of your FF to manually show you what you want to see (fish and bottom detail) and not show you what you don't need to see (noise, reflectance, back scatter, etc).

Try manually setting your FF signal strength somewhere between 75% and 100%. 80 something % may be a good place to start.

CBull

CB...got any suggestions as to the type/name of an epoxy that will be conducive with the Hobie hull material?

Ron,

I used Lowrance P/N 024-0113-00. $12.00 at a local marine shop.

I'm not necessarilly certain that this epoxy product is designed to bond well to polyethylene.
No complaints thus far.

I used 100 grit sandpaper to lightly rough up both the hull and the transducer face. I then carefully rubbed down both sanded surfaces with rubbing alcohol (mostly due to its fast drying properties).
Carefully mix the two part epoxy so as not to add bubbles to the mix. I allowed the mix to thicken a bit (several minutes of mixing) and that seemed to help hold the transducer in place, but I did have to apply some added down pressure in order to make the epoxy thin out between t-ducer and hull.
Secure the transducer to prevent shifting while curing (be sure that you don't exert unwanted side or twisting pressure when tying the t-ducer cable out of the way).

Allow the epoxy to cure several days or more.

At this point you can test drive, but I opted to carefully fill the foam dam with marine goop and let that cure for several more days; I pointed a fan at the t-ducer dam and opened up the midship hatch and removed the tackle box and opened the stern hatch and removed the hatch box in hopes that the added air flow would speed up the drying process. A long difficult wait... You may want to do this and then jump into some other project not related to the kayak in order to distract yourself from the waiting (my "honey do" list became considerably shorter and my wife was happier).

CBull

i have had great luck with DAP aquarium sealer for the ducer. it's cheap and works. see http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx ... ubcatID=27. the sealer is slow curing which reduces air bubbles. i have used other stuff in the past but this works the best and sticks.
just sand alittle and clean it up.

i have a cuda 242. i have had it 4 years. it is finally giving me some problems with depth. in the past, i called tech support a few times about fine tuning the settings. if you use the factory defaults, it most likely will not show fish.

ALWAYS use fish arches (told by several techs) and manual senstivity (about 85% up to 100. this is where you tweak it to find fish). Additionallly, turn off clutter.

the reason why people complain about the low cost units not finding fish. it's the settings. i will probably get a eagle 300 or 350. 300 and 350 are the same. I only need to switch out finder head. the ducer hardly ever go bad. i did look at lowarnce m68c and hummingbird. i'll probably wait on a high cost one. i want a model that i can store to a memory chip and view on pc. but for now i'll stick with the 300.

one last tip. i use trailer quick connects and store battery in plastic box insdie a coors soft cooler. i just snap connects and ready to go. keeps water away from connections and protects the fuse.l

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John

Thanks to both of you guys...CB and John. John, does the dap product take as long to cure as the epoxy (not that I'm takin medicine..hey I'm mostly retired and looking to catch fish:-)CB talks about?
And with regard to "clutter", which setting are you talking about? I kinda thought that I might be seeing fish, and don't know it. As slow as I am moving, the arch might be more exaggerated, might en it?

CB...where in Michigan are you? I grew up there, and will be in Michigan I hope later this summer. It would be great to hook up with someone who "knows" what they are doing, and fishing out of a Kayak....let me know. You can also reach me at [email protected]
I am desperate to catch some walleye. This reservoir here in NW Arkansas where I fish has Walleye, but I haven't seen or caught one as yet. Did haul a nice 22 inch stripper aboard a few days ago. My record catch.

Ron;

Traded emails... looking forward to sharing the same water!

I found some decent text on the Lowrance web site (http://www.lowrance.com/en/Support/Tips ... -Tutorial/ ), explaining why fish show up as arches when the watercraft is moving, note that when the watercraft is stationary you will NOT typically see fish arches and you would tend to see straight horizontal lines appear and dissappear on the FF display as fish swim into, stay a bit and leave the transducer's cone angle;

"The reason fish show as an arch is because of the relationship between the fish and the cone angle of the transducer as the boat passes over the fish. As the leading edge of the cone strikes the fish, a display pixel is turned on. As the boat passes over the fish, the distance to the fish decreases. This turns each pixel on at a shallower depth on the display. When the center of the cone is directly over the fish, the first half of the arch is formed. This is also the shortest distance to the fish. Since the fish is closer to the boat, the signal is stronger and the arch is thicker. As the boat moves away from the fish, the distance increases and the pixels appear at progressively deeper depths until the cone passes the fish.

If the fish doesn't pass directly through the center of the cone, the arch won't be as well defined. Since the fish isn't in the cone very long, there aren't as many echoes to display, and the ones that do show are weaker. This is one of the reasons it's difficult to show fish arches in shallow water. The cone angle is too narrow for the signal to arch.

Remember, there must be movement between the boat and the fish to develop an arch. Usually, this means trolling at a slow speed with the main engine. If you are anchored or stopped, fish signals won't arch. Instead, they'll show as horizontal lines as they swim in and out of the cone."

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March 2010 Hobie Pro Angler

CBull

Ron;

Also note that the shallower the water is, the harder it will be to get fish under the transducer since the fish will likely spook out from under the boat. You may be seeing some small blocks and not well formed arches; these could very well be fish a few feet off to the side of your boat\yak.

The user manual that comes with your FF unit or downloaded from the FF manufacturer web site, is generally pretty good, but not the most interesting or best "read" around. In the case of the Lowrance unit we both have, read; "testing determines best location" on page 15, "shoot-thru-hull transducer mounting instructions" on page 16, "sensitivity" adjustment on page 32 (actually read all of the operation chapters and details concerning how to manually set everything).
I must admit it took me a few minutes to figure out how to make manual adjustments while watching depth and looking for bottom structure and fish. One noteworthy item that helped myself; when you get into a menu and then want to make the menu dissappear, tap the pwr button and wait a few seconds for the menu to "walk" off to the left and off the screen. Hitting the pwr button basically doesn't feel like a good way in which to exit a menu, but that particular function has been engineered into this FF and I suspect some other units as well.

_________________
March 2010 Hobie Pro Angler

CBull

ron,
the dap aquamium sealer takes a few days. it cures slow which means no bubbles. i have tried several products but the dap stuff works the best. i gave it 5 days for it to cure. it could be less.

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John