H18 Solo Setup Issues

Hey all,

Picked up an H18 (first hobie for me) a couple weeks ago to take up on vacation, to cut the long story short, we're currently working on our 5th mast hinge (6th on back order, plus one that we epoxy'd back together).

First day we had it, we checked everything over, replaced a few swollen ropes and attempted to get the mast up, almost broke my back and the diamond wire skinned my entire back when it fell. Second attempt snapped the hinge it came with (and almost smashed into one of our cars windshield). We decided to hold off on a third because trying to lift the 29'ish full aluminum mast from 4ft from it's pivoting point was just too much for us to lift.

Luckily Canadian Tire had a 1800lbs winch on sale which we bolted on a support arm (http://imgur.com/WoKXa.jpg) and routed the cable through the top eye bolt on our trailer (http://imgur.com/6ZCHM.jpg). So we figured this time we would be fine with a mechanical device lifting it, the winch is slow, much slower then anticipated so we broke a 3rd hinge but we did get it up once 3 people were able to steady it.

Coming down is easy as long as the winch controller does not stop going down, soon as you stop the winch the mast bounces and then proceeds to fall to the right or left depending on wind direction.

Our current tactic for stepping this mast is very dangerous, and i've no doubt if someone walked near it and got hit in the head would be seriously injured. The winch idea is great and makes life much easier, i've done some googling but can't wrap my head around how people are using the trap wires to steady it. The best idea i could come up with was to attach the old main line(at a folded in half point) to the new one, tie off both ends to the front cross member and pull the new main rope to the top as tight as possible(about 5-6ft short of the top). But last time i was taking it down i was so nervous and shaking from the past couple days experiences that nobody with me paid any attention to the old main rope to see if it even worked >.< they just paid full attention to the mast to get clear if the hinge snapped again.

Current setup on front stay is Winch -> ibolt pulley -> winch clip -> rope small enough to feed through top 3 holes on the 10pin plate of the front stay, winch the mast up with 1 person on one of the stay lines depending on wind direction, myself on the tramp eyeing the mast is going up straight, 3rd on winch control.

Would really like some tips or something on how to limit this down to 1 person. My other option is to lengthen the winch controller long enough that i can stand on the tramp with it holding the mast as straight as possible. Also forgive my terminology on items, sometimes you just forget stuff.

Wow.... BE CAREFUL !! Keep out of the way of a falling mast.

Ok... to NOT bust the mast hinge... you've got to PREVENT the mast from swaying side to side when raising.

To raise one person you need mechanical advantage.

You can go to murrays.com.. or just get a hobie catalog... and get the GIN POLE for single-handed mast raising.

Imagine the mast is linked in at the mast-step... and the mast is lying down to the back of the boat. (boat SECURED to trailer).

The gin pole sticks STRAIGHT UP... from the dolphin striker... right up to the sky. the bottom of the gin pole sits on the mast... strapped to the mast.

The sides of the gin pole... are strapped to the hulls, in a loop going around each hull. (right in front of each front crossbar)

To keep things steady... the gin pols has another set of straps that go from around the hulls (in front of the crossbars) and they reach up and clip onto the trapeze harness wires. (this stops the mast from swaying side to side).

if you have an electric wench... you've got the raising power... maybe all you need is to stabilise the mast from swinging side to side... ((like I just described)).

So.. back to the gin pole... the thing is sticking up in the air... there's those straps to the hull...and straps to the trap wires... now... to the top of the gin pole up there in the air... clip the end of your trailer wench cable....

...and start cranking...

...being watchful that the mast doesn't sway... and the mast step pin is in....

...the mast will come up and settle on it's little ball mast step....

then you link the fore stay to the bridle wires...

double check everything... and then slowly reverse the trailer wench... and the rigging takes up the load.

Congrats... double check....

...decide if you want to tighten up your shrouds (the side wire rigging)... and that's it.

Be safe.

don't forget to check for overhead wires AND... if you can raise the mast with the wind from the REAR of the boat, it helps a bit.....

it also helps a bit if when the mast is up... the boat is leaning forward down... so the mast is leaning forward and that helps keep it standing while you hookup the forestay....

SO... while you can do it alone (I have as described)... it's always good to have an able body to assist...
and INVALUABLE if you run into a snag.

Cheers and congrats on your awesome boat.

P.S. - I've seen guys with Nacra 6.0s using electric wenches with "cheap" pulleys, bolts, etc on their trailer... and the stuff just breaks....

I'd REALLY recommend making sure you have quality nuts, bolts, washers, and pulleys...if you're going to use any.

In essence... you're putting your mast... your rear crossbar... and anything in the rear of the boat in the trust of a $8 home supply store pulley that was made in china for probably a clothesline... NOT to leverage up a 40-50 pound mast at a BAD angle of leverage....

PS if your mast is 29 feet, it's probably 29.5 feet and if so it's a Hobie 18SX (somewhat rare) rather than the standard 28 feet of the more common Hobie18.

Cheers again,
Rob.

Hearing about this GIN pole has given me an idea, pretty sure i've got something similar from a previous boat.

I personally broke the 5th hinge by accident, i stupidly forgot to remove the cheap screw chain link and it snapped about 10ft up, i was under it and prepared to catch it in-case but when i did catch it i twisted it too much and snapped the 5th. Switched in the broken epoxied one and got it up fine.

The pulley that came with the winch is rated for the winch's maximum 1750lbs so we're good there.

Also just went out and re-measured the mast, 28'2" give or take an inch. Previous owners must have dropped the mast since we had a dent and the mast was bent a good foot or two above the top diamond wires, used a 3" exhaust spreader and popped the dent out and re-straightened the mast, so far it's been fine.

Thanks for the info on the gin pole.

Five broken mast hinges in a few weeks...you are doing something very very wrong. Time to take a step back and re-assess your process before someone gets seriously hurt. I've been sailing Hobie 18s for over 20 years and never broken a mast hinge.

You need to keep the mast in line when raising. Don't let it swing out to either side. I would recommend that you use two people to raise and lower the mast (both up on the tramp) while you're still figuring the boat out. Having two sets of hands on the mast really makes raising and lowering a lot easier and the second person doesn't need to be very strong, they're just there to help stabilize the mast.

Winches and gin poles can be helpful, but they can also add a lot of complication and danger if they aren't used properly.

sm

You need to keep the mast from moving side to side as it is raised and lowered. The key to that is to use the trap wires and attach them to something near the front crossbar. If they are attached even with mast base (front crossbar) front to back and attached near the hulls they will not get looser or tighter as the mast goes up but will keep it from moving side to side (like shrouds). I have short bungie loops with a hook attached to the hull to tie into the centerboard bungies. I purposly made these the correct length to hook to the front trap (bungie tight) when the mast is down and because they are a little forward of the cross bar will get a little looser as the mast goes up. Either way they give stability to the mast during the raising process. If they were tied off the the crossbar then they could be tighter and work better.

There is a video on you tube on raising the mast solo that gives some good pointers for doing it with help also. I have also seen some nice pictures of winch rigs on this forum for raising/lowering, just do a search.

Good luck.

This is an amazing story. I can pop an 18 mast up solo with no issues at 46. One side shroud must be tight to prevent the mast from fallin off to the side. I have been sailing these boats since '82 and never ever broke a mast step. I have forgotten the step pin but never broke the step. You need to get someone to show you how to do this properly before you hurt someone!!

We initially watched this guys video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl7kZOQ5WQk#t=3m28s as you can see he proceeds to lift it underhand single handedly, so us.. expecting it to be that easy went and tried. I must make a video for you to see what i'm doing, because this is nuts and i'm not that out of shape. I've been told by others that theres 2 different masts for the H18, full aluminum and a half composite half aluminum which tapers off when it gets close to the top making the latter one much lighter.

Who knows.. when we're finished fixing it and it's all back together i shall make a video or takes pictures of what we're doing. And what are you using the tighten the one shroud? When the mast is pinned and laying down theres a great deal of slack in the wires, so much so that it can easily touch eithor hull when it's pinned.

I agree. You need to have someone who has an 18 show you how to do this. The mast must be kept straight. I am 55 my boat is 20 years and I have always raised it by myself, second person needed to pin the halyard and never broken a mast base.

_________________
ADDICTION
1989 HOBIE 18 SE/sx wings
HOBIE ALTER SIGNATURE MODEL

I filled my mast with hydrogen gas, to make it lighter, it just about floats it self up. Just kidding.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl7kZOQ5WQk

Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QLltz31cy8

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ALLEY CAT 1984 RED LINE HOBIE 18 MAGNUM
Sail # 10505 or 277

I am interested in how you popped out your dent. Did you remove the mast cap and slide the
exhaust expander down the mast? How did you tighten the expander inside the mast. I would
appreciate any info because I have a similar dent from a previous owner.

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Castleton,NY

We didn't put the dent in it either (never go look at a boat in the dark, black mast and dark don't mix well) but we're lucky enough it's outside the diamond wire compression zone and shouldn't be too big a threat.

3" exhaust expander ($20 @ Princess Auto) and about 7-8 1/2" foot long drive extensions, took the top cap off, took the inner plate out, slide the expander up and expand it to remove the dent. We broke the rubber rings on ours because the mast is bigger then the expander could go but just big enough to do the job before breaking the rings. Slide everything out, do any straightening with 2x4's without doing more damage. Sand the edge around the cap to remove old silicone, reapply silicone right at the inner plate, very thin silicone around the mast cap and re-rivet it back on with stainless steel rivets (don't be cheap )

To start with the hinge is made of cheap metal probably so it will
break before the mast foot. The hinge costs about $30. The foot
probably costs hundreds.

The original mast was a solid aluminum extrusion. Sometime in the 80's
someone raised one into power lines and sued Hobie. There answer was
to replace about the top 1/3 of the mast with fiberglass. It probably
is considerably lighter. There's no way I could throw my solid aluminum
mast up like the guy in that video.

I only broke 1 hinge with no collateral damage but it still scared me.

The trick like everyone says is to keep it straight. I have a winch
where you have your pulley. It's there to pull the boat onto the trailer
but it does double duty. I use the 2 front trap wires to pull the mast up
and the back 2 wires to steady the mast. I run the jib sheets under the front
crossbar and attach them to the back trap cables. That makes their pivot
point nearly coincident with the step pin. Pull the jib sheets tight and
start winching. Make sure to leave the tie downs on or you'll just pull the
boat toward you. Go slow. Adjust the tension on the jib lines as needed.
Also use a ladder or a board propped against the rear crossbar to get the
mast as high as you can before you start to winch.

One other thing to consider. When the mast is low if the hinge breaks the
foot of the mast is going to come forward in a big hurry. Be safe. I used to
use a safety harness connecting the mast foot to my cheetah mount until I
figured out a way to get the mast high enough before I start winching.

_________________
The ox is slow but the earth is patient

What a simple way for side support and quickly / easily adjustable.

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Jeff Serene
1984 Hobie 18 Magnum
Phoenix, AZ

I'm with you ffstone, I'm in shape and it seems like a bear to me too, I thought I had extra weight in the end of my mast. Be sure you have a little nose down attitude so when you do get it up, its easy to hold there (rest time).

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H18, H17 & Various motor boats