Dousing Spinnaker

Don't skewer me for what may seem like an obvious question:

I've worked out setting up a spinnaker on my stock H18. I've got the rig set for the hoist with a one line system (tack/head), but have not worked out lines for the douse. I'm using an old Tiger spin and mid pole snuffer.

Any help or pix for rigging for a douse? I can't seem to find any.
Thanks!

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

so I've done some digging and found the halyard also acts as the retireval line, running through 2 or 3 grommets down the sail. I've read where knots or stoppers are needed at each grommet. Should there be extra slack line on the retrieval side, or just enough to follow the belly of the spin when full plus the distance to the snuffer?

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

Hi Chris, Have you seen the neat Youtube video of Jeremy's H18 spin kit? I don't know anything about these things, but perhaps it would help answer some of your questions.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmckx-DuQt0[/youtube]

Brian,
thanks for your effort. I have seen the video clip several times, but there is no mention or images of the halyard/retrieval line on the spinnaker.

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

Hi Chris,

Let me see if I can shed some light on this. I bought my spinnaker rig from Jeremy at Surf City and am fortunate enough to live with-in driving distance of his shop and he was kind enough to help me rig it the first time (actually, the cat in his spinnaker rigging video is mine). The problem was that between that first time he helped me and the next time I rigged it on my own, I had forgotten the proper routing of most of the lines. This diagram in the below link helped me tremendously and even though it shows a Hobie 16, the spin on an 18 is virtually identical.

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/20999020.pdf

The only differences are as follows;

1) Looking at the diagram, item #3 shows a block with spring and eyestrap sewn to the trampoline. There is no need to sew anything to the trampoline. We simply tied a short length of 1/4" bungee cord to a single block and then passed the other end of the bungee through one of the grommet holes at the rear of the tramp and tied a stopper knot to prevent it from pulling back through. Your retrival line comes out of the aft end of the spinnaker bag, comes up through the 1st or 2nd center tramp grommet just aft of the forward crossbar (as shown in the diagram), then passes through the single block you have tied off near the center aft end of the tramp before going back forward through the cleat mounted on your forward crossbar. When completed, your halyard/retrieval line will look like a "V" sitting on top of your tramp.

2) The spinnaker sheet blocks are mounted to the bottom of your shroud chain plates, not forward of the chain plates as shown on the diagram. I suppose the location of these blocks depends a lot on the cut of your spinnaker but I think they'll work fine here (bottom of chain plates) with the Tiger spinnaker.

The retrieval line DOES pass through the grommets in the center of the sail. In my case as well as most I'm sure, there are 3 grommets. Pass the line through the bottom grommet, back through the 2nd grommet and finally, through the 3rd (top) grommet. Tie a stopper know in the line after passing it through the top grommet only. There is no need to tie stopper knots anywhere else but the top grommet.

You were right in saying that there needs to be just enough slack in the retrieval line to allow the sail to completely fill. I rigged mine several times in the driveway ensuring my lines were the perfect length before taking it out for a sail. It all seems very complicated until you do it a few times.

Hopefully this helps...don't hesitate to ask questions if you need more clarification.

Tom

Hey Brian, do you know if there is a similar video for the 16s?

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'81 H16

If it ain't a blowin', I ain't a goin'

that's a good description Tom. Thank you.

so, a dead calm day the driveway is what I need to experiment.

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

I have learned that attaching a ring at each dousing point but the top works better and does less damage to the sail. Attach all rings on the same side and run the line straight up to the top point and tie off with a figure 8. Are you endpole snuffing or mid-pole?
I tend to disagree about the turnblocks at the shrouds, thats too far back IMO. I would be pulling the foot too hard at that angle.
Also, running the halyard thru an eyelet that has tramp lacing in it will cut the tramp lacing. It is best to install a grommet specifically for the spin halyard in the tramp. I have tried many different ways to run it and a stand off pulley of some kind on the crossbar would seem to be the best way to do it but I have yet to find a pulley that will work. I use a twing line block in the rear, one side of the sheave opens for easy line removal.

Hmmm....interesting. I haven't experienced any cutting of my tramp lacing rigging the halyard/retrieval line in this way. Maybe it's because my tramp lacing is very small in diameter allowing plenty of room for the other line. My spin was custom made for the boat so the sheet blocks do work well mounted to the bottom of the chain plates.

I am interested in the rings attached at the bottom two spin grommets....what diameter did you use and are they metel or plastic?

Of course spin block placement is dependent on the size and cut of the spin itself. I have my blocks on a second car in the jib block track, forward of the jib block. My turning blocks are on the front x-bar at the hiking strap location. Also buy having the block in the jib track it gives me a little bit of spin trimming ability as I can travel it forward and back changing the sheeting angle. I use a single halyard/retrieval line with a seperate tack line. My retrieval line is secured on the top ring, runs freely thru the second and first ring- thru the min-pole snuffer mouth - out back of the bag-thru a turning block on the dolphin striker - up thru a grommet in the tramp about 1/3 back from x-bar-back - thru a second grommet about 15" back - down under the tramp - thru another turning block under the tramp near the rear x-bar - back up to the front x-bar - thru a turning block on the dolphin striker - up the mast - thru an exit block on the mast - up to the top of the mast - thru the spin halyard block - to the spin head. The turning block under the tramp near the rear x-bar is secured with a bungee, helps keep entire "loop" slack free. The seperate tack line runs from the spin tack - thru a turning block at end of pole - thru a cleat on top of the front x-bar. Can not figure out how to post pics, e-mail me and I can send some. Jim.

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ADDICTION
1989 HOBIE 18 SE/sx wings
HOBIE ALTER SIGNATURE MODEL

Are you racing with this setup? Where are you grabbing the halyard to raise and douse? What are you doing with the jib when the spin is out?

My snuffer bag ties off at the dolphin striker. I have a grommet installed below the pocket on the port side, halyard runs back to a bungeed block tied off to the tramp lacing at rear x-bar and then forward to a pivot cam and pulley at the front crossbar starboard of the mast, up thru the spreader, thru a sheeve block and down thru a pulley suspended on a dyneema bail to the head of the sail.
We raise by pulling down above the pivot cam and pulley, this keeps the shroud cammed the whole time as the retrieval line flows out.
Douse by pulling up on the halyard at the grommet in the tramp.

I also could run the retreival line thru the grommets and it run freely, but after it coming in and out a dozen times a race the line will begin to burn the sail where it rubs during the bunch. By adding some stainless or plastic rings the sail doesn't bunch up on itself. Instead the head comes down to the first ring and then to the second. The sail stays out in three loops and then snuffs in smoothly with little to no chafe.

My spin has 3 rings for retrevial. The head comes down to the first ring, then down to the second, and down to the third. At this point the spin is bunched at the mouth of the snuffer and starts to go in the bag. The retrevial line is no longer moving across the spin and no burns have occured. I do race open class with the spin frequently, we do not have an 18 fleet here. I hold my own against the Nacras, G-cats and Super Cat 17's downwind which all have spins. They are why I put one one my boat because they were killing me down wind portsmyth hits added. Your single halyard/retrevial line set up sounds like what I use. As far as the jib goes, depending on the wind speed and coarse determines if I fly the jib or not. I have more of a CODE 0 cut spin and I can reach real well with it. On a reach I fly the jib along with the spin. As I fall off more on a run angle I furl the jib and fly only fly the spin because the jib will not stay full and trim.

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ADDICTION
1989 HOBIE 18 SE/sx wings
HOBIE ALTER SIGNATURE MODEL

can someone link me to a vid of this in action? i understand i think from the diagram, but does this jibe across the forestay/jib halyard freely? i know it depends on the cut , but.... still questions...

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eric, sail #205

Can't provide a video but the spin does jibe easily in front of the forestay. The spin sheets attach from each side and actually the bitter end pulls across the forestay on jibes. It is complicated to visualize without the system in front of you.

When dousing spinnaker - try be on the tack where the retrieval line is on the inside of the bag, prevents rope burns.

When jibing crew must help pre release sheets through blocks before pulling in on other side - spinaker will flow easier and not hang up on anything, and prevent capsizing. Never pull the spin around, let the wind do it. Spin is very fragile and pricey, keep tension on rope but do not force it.

You can tack or jibe the spinnaker, jibing is better and quicker.