Questions about higher wind speeds

Mostly thinking out loud about getting in over my head (figuratively and literally) when I took my 18 out solo for the second time on Friday. Winds were about 14mph - 23 gust and I pitch poled it in short order. I know my primary mistake - after years of motorsports I've been trained to steer into the direction of the roll and clearly this is the exact wrong action on a sailboat; presenting more sail to the wind rather than steering upwind and depowering the boat.

Still, I'm a bit gun-shy now. I believe my other problem was that I simply did not have the sails trimmed properly. As fate would have it, I believe I also ended up starting out just as the winds went up to about 18mph sustained for a few minutes - It was just burying the front of lee hull and I now feel much less in control of the boat.

Correct me if I'm wrong but:
1) More outhaul and main sheet to flatten and depower the main?
2) jib blocks aft in higher winds?
3) I'm not sure I know what to do with downhaul on this mast.

I'm thinking of going out again tomorrow - winds look like they are going to be similar, I don't think I'll try it solo - I thought for sure I'd be able to right the boat with my 205lb physique but it appears I was mistaken - I'm not sure if you are supposed to stand on the dagger boards or not, but In a panic over turtling, I did with no ill effects.

If I mind my Ps and Qs regarding sail control for points of sail and head upwind if things go wrong; I assume WeatherUnderground's predicted 14mph wind for tomorrow should be doable - you think?

First thing I would do is try to find a crew. 205lbs isn't really enough weight on an 18 when the wind comes up above about 15mph. Next thing would be to furl the jib, doing so takes out almost 1/3 of your sail area. Then you need to focus on depowering the mainsail. The primary tools for this are mainsheet and downhaul. The harder you pull in the downhaul, the more you'll flatten and depower the sail.

The direction of the roll has nothing to do with how you should react. The boat will always roll to leeward. If you're on a beam reach or close hauled, then your want to steer the boat into the wind and ease the sails. This will bring the hull down. If you're on a broad reach, you actually want to steer away from the wind, this stalls the sails and also uses the bouyancy of the bows to counteract the sail's drive.

sm

What SM said about the broad reach is key. If you turn into the wind at the point in the imminent pitchpole, you'll go over for sure. It's counter-intuitive (if you think about the close reach. ) Wave size is key too. Sometimes with less wave height there is less bobbing. How did you get it back upright solo?

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H18, H17 & Various motor boats

Years ago when sailing monohulls I was told to steer the boat under the mast when sailing downwind.

Looks like the same applies when sailing cats.

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H18 Newbie, Too heavy for the 14

Can you explain what you mean by this?

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Jeff Serene
1984 Hobie 18 Magnum
Phoenix, AZ

I believe, beyond a reach you don't come back past 90 degrees to the wind to sail up, instead you go further down wind.

In higher winds when sailing on a reach/broad reach the practise was sheet out the mainsail and pull the tiller towards you (bear away) at the same time. This would spill wind from the sail/less power and keep the boat flat/surfing.

Put simply - "keep the hull under the mast".

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H18 Newbie, Too heavy for the 14

I question mast rake on this situation, he pitchpoled solo! Where were you seated on the boat? Its nearly impossible to pitchpole solo IMO. Or did you mean that you capsized? If this boat really pitchpoled and you where seated at the rear crossbar the mast is raked too far forward driving the bows down. Where you on the trap or able to trapeze? I have too many questions to answer this, the boat is controllable up to 20kts solo if trapezing, seated maybe 15kts would be a max out. You should be able to sail up high into the wind with control but if you fall off it will power up and get out of control quickly.

I was seated pretty far out and virtually (if not literally) over the rear crossbar - it happened pretty fast but I watched the hull submerge and It seems to me it was much more pitch-pole than capsize. I'll have to glance at the rake although I don't know how to measure it - I only just this weekend noticed how it is supposed to be adjusted.

Also, As far as rig tension goes - I find with the setting I've been using (perhaps just barely taught) there is some some slack and the mast bangs around a bit in chopy water - is this ideal?

Does anyone run without battens in light wind?

Without battens you have nothing more then a fancy bedsheet hanging up there .... just drying in the wind.

With battens installed properly you have a sail .... a aerodynamic wing that will propel you across the water ....


So, NO we don't sail w/o battons .... and the lighter the wind the more you need the battens ... to shape the sail properly .... thats why fully battened sails on a multihulls will cause the multihull to move along when non-battened monomorans (ie: mono-slugs') are just sitting still .....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Mast rake is not nearly as critical of a setting on the 18 as it is on some of the other Hobies, so while your mast rake setting may have contributed to your capsize, it was not the cause. With the stock mainsheet system (non-low profile) your main blocks should be almost touching when sailing upwind double trapped in a moderate to high wind. That is a pretty good indicator of proper rake setting.

For rig tension, I find the 18 likes a moderate to snug amount of tension. Pretty much just enough to keep the rig from banging around, but not so much that mast rotation is inhibited.

Hobie 18s don't usually do a full on ass over teacups pitchpole. Usually what happens is the leeward bow dives under, the rudders come out of the water, and the boat spins upwind and blows over on its side. In any case, the remedy is usually to blow the mainsheet as soon as you lose sight of the bow. 18s are generally quite forgiving in this way.

sm

I went out again 10-12, 18mph gusts. Again no trapeze and single handed. I had a really hard time skimming the hull - it seemed like as soon as the windward hull was getting ready to come out of the water, all hell was breaking loose and it was all I could do to get it back into the water - usually lots of rudder -> hull goes way up -> stays for 15 - 20 degrees and then the boat is practically stopped. This happened every time the hull was about to skim, if I had more than a couple inches of hull in the water it was usually manageable. Is this on/off heeling a function of not having enough weight hiked out or do I just need to get better? I can hover a helicopter, I expected to have an easy time flying a hull.

I actually didn't try traveling the main out too much - maybe I need to focus more on the sail than the rudder? In those winds it seems like a lot of effort to keep the traveler uncleated for extended periods.

Getting up on one hull......depending on the wind, you may want a tight traveler, you may want it 6" out, or 8" or 10" or 12" out, you have to experiment. (This is also a question as to how much weather helm you have.)

Then the mainsheet - we rarely cleat the mainsheet....for safety's sake.

Now when the windward hull begins to lift, turn about 3 to 5 degrees OUT of the wind, in other words, downwind, and be prepared to sheet out the main one arm's length. As soon as you feel the hull start dropping and returning to the water, sheet in hard back to where you were. Helps if you have long arms.

As the other Forum guys have mentioned, the H18 is quite forgiving. My usual style is to keep very solid pressure on the mainsheet, and only ease if the 'pufff' is really strong. Most times, I will turn out of the wind and let the H18 build up speed. If the puff is too strong, then I will release the mainsheet somewhat. Trim is very important....your fore/aft position on the Hobie - you want to be as far forward as is safe to allow the optimum 'flow' of water around the hulls. You want to be as far back to prevent the bows from digging in. What challenges we give ourselves!

Yes, I have often been for a swim, but not in a H18 in the last five or six years. Don't talk to me about H16's or Lasers...

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2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Interesting - I was leaving the sheet cleated and only working the traveler, which is a lot of work. So I gather very little sheet adjustment (and arms length) can be used to control the heeling effectively?

Definitely set and cleat the traveler and then sail by playing the mainsheet. The traveler is a gross adjustment. The mainsheet is a fine tune adjustment.

sm