rudder pin/bushing replacement

Received pins and bushings friday and replaced them today. Still had some play when i was done - but not much. The left side was a problem. The gudgeon was somehow bent. I had to drive the old pin out with a hammer and had to remove and bend the lower gudgeon so the pin would fit. It was bent so that the pin missed the upper gudgeon by ~3/16" aft but good side to side. I could've shimmed under the lower 2 screws to get the same effect. I believe it was like this from the factory because there is no evidence of a hit hard enough to bend it, and the pin on the bad side was really worn in the area of the gudgeon - probably worn .10" into the pin while the other side wasn't worn.

Pin wouldn't go into the upper gudgeon:


Installed thin SS washers as suggested by a forum member. Had to file one casting to get enough clearance to get the washer in there - the other side had clearance.


While i was in there with marine sealant i re-sealed the drain plug housings:



Question - how can i be sure i put the rudders back on the right way - right/left. I'm pretty sure i got them back on correctly but not 100%

Also, i'm a little scared of the rudder system - it doesn't kick up like it's supposed to. I'm aware of the newer system but have a question. Has anyone ever thought of, or is it possible to change them to be like other systems with two lines on each side to lower and raise the rudders ? My friend has a Supercat 17 and he put red and green lines on each side - green for go(down) and red for stop(up). I don't sail in shallow water but you never know - and i've seen posts with pictures of the results of rudders on the 18 not kicking up - it's not pretty.

Thanks,

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17926&hilit=rudder

Here is a post I had about mine when I started out. Looks like your setup is not right. Take your time read through the posts and you'll be on top of this in no time. Without these guys on here I'd have an 18 that would be a mess.

There is a artilce on the beachcats on how to add lines to help them kick up http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures/?g2_itemId=11352but to be honest having to use ropes on your rudders sucks I just sold my Nacra 5.5sl because of the rope system its a huge headache. You can find the newer set up used just ask around and post up on forums looking for them. I got the newer system plus 2 epo rudders for $300 used its still more than I wanted to spend but beats the cost & time dealing with problems caused by rudders not kicking up. Junky rudder systems can ruin your love for sailing trust me if you can find a way to get the newer system beg, barrow or steal do it!!

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Floyd
00 Tiger
http://www.HobieFleet33.com
10 Mile Surfside, Texas
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I think your boat has been upgraded but you were sold the old style system. Your castings are too tight to the gudgeons, the bushings should fit opposite of how you have them and if it took filing to get a washer in then something is wrong. Are there any additional holes near the lower gudeon?

On the kick up:
No need to add line. Lube the mechanism where the pin in the upper casting rolls into the lock. That solves about 90% of rudder issues with that system.

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The rudder arms should be angled inward when looking from the stern forward for correct installation.

You may want to consider upgrading your gudgeons. You've got the gudgeons that were in production until the mid '80s. The design was changed at the same time that the rudder castings were changed, 1986. The new design is stronger and works with both the old and new style rudder castings.

There are several discussions on this forum regarding the original-style rudder castings. I've been using them since 1985 and have been able to make them work sufficiently with only some very minor modifications. Lubrication and minimal spring tension are the keys IMO, but there are a lot of tips and suggestions already posted, do a search. The new system has more reliable kick-up, but it also has some drawbacks too. I would only switch to that system if you find yourself really struggling with the old system, or if you come across a really good deal on the new system. Otherwise, probably not worth the expense.

sm

First, thank you for all the replies.

My friend made it seem like the 2-lines per side system was the best ?? Sounds like that's not the case.
So if i have everything lubed and minimal spring pressure (i already made sure the plastic screws are free and BARELY tight - to the point i feel they might fall out) then how hard should i have to pull on the rudder to get it to release ? I stood behind the boat and pulled back on each rudder pretty hard and nothing. I will search and read - i do recall a bunch of posts that mention filing a flat on something and spring pressure etc...

Okay - the rudder arms will be noticeably towed in when installed correctly - i'll make sure that's the case.

Thanks again !!



Florida Joshua - i think your rudder system is the newer system and different from mine. Experts - do i have it setup right or ??? Seemed like the only way it would go together but i'm not sure. Thanks.

Hi,

From the picture you posted above ... while you may have purchased a new rudder casing .... it is NOT the NEW UPGRADED Rudder system.

I can tell from the aluminum cam and that thin tang sticking up w/ the rivet half way up ... FYI ... that's were that casting will break, right at that rivet!!!!

Sorry to give you the bad news .....

Please note that the "New" H18 Rudder system is the same as the H17 Rudder system .... so if you have a H17 near you, go look at it and take pic's ... so you'll know what the correct castings look like .....

As for sealing the drainplugs .... the sealent needs to be on the flange/transom .... not in the hole .... when you need to re-seal/replace them it maybe a problem removing them ..... you may need to cut them out w/ a hacksaw blade .... think of doing exhaust/muffler work on your car when the pipe breaks on the inside of the other pipe that you wish to "save" ....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Do you have what set up right, the rudder pins/bushings? The only thing you might do is flip the lower bushing so it is inserted from the underside. That way the bushing flange is locked in place between the casting and gudgeon and the bushing won't be able to work its way up. Otherwise it looks fine to me.

sm

You know it's funny how you can look at a picture and not notice the obvious ....

Take a close look at that pic of your lowwer casting hanging in the back ground on the far transom ..... see that bolt head ..... turn your bolts around so that the bolt head is on the outside and the nut is on the inside ....

Why you ask???

Because when you fall off the boat usually it is to the outside, and not over the rear crossbar.... and a bolt sticking out from the rudder casting can scratch you up .... scratch you bad enough to require stitches even .....

So, install the bolts from the outside to the inside ... use nyloc nuts on them .... cut off any bolt sticking out w/ a hacksaw and file the bolt till flush w/ the nut w/ a flat file. (of course you could use a Dremel Tool w/ a cut-off wheel).

Note: This is how I know which rudder is the port or starboard rudder since I store them in my sailbox out of the sun when not sailing .... look at the bolts/nuts ... nuts go on the inside ......

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

SM - i tried installing bushing the other way - not enough clearance. You're right, there's nothing to keep the bushing from working it's way up and out. I'll try again the other way ? I have access to a machine shop so i could turn down the face of the bushing if i can't get it in the other way around and/or it works it's way out.

Harry - it's funny you mentioned the bolts. That's why i thought i might have put the rudders on backwards. I'm 'particular' with my stuff and i thought i would've noticed that the bolts were facing out. I rotated the drain plug housing brfore i screwed it back on and sealant oozed out all around. It won't leak.
The boat is all original as far as i know. The gudgeons, castings, etc. are all stock.
I like working on the boat, but, it's going to be a long winter......

Thanks all

Sorry about that. I still don't know the differences between all the different gear yet. I lucked out, when I got my 18 the guy before me seemed to upgrade a bunch of gear. I had to go back and fix it because he didn't install the rudder system right, but got it running so sweet now thanks to everyone here.