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 Post subject: Pointing
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:52 am
Posts: 5
I was in my first race two weeks ago in a river - a six hour cat marathon. There were heaps of vipers and FX-1's and a few 16's. Winds were predicted soft for the first couple of hours and 25knot gusty conditions for the middle, going back to gentle.
I kept the battens tight which was obviously a mistake for two parts of the race and eased off the main downhaul at the start which helped in light air. I was doing okay in the light stuff but with the moderate winds found I couldn't point anywhere near where all the other boats were going. On the port tack I was actually heading back up river. Was this a problem with my jib traveller cars (I kept at them a fair bit), too soft for the main downhaul or a mast rake problem? Boat speed was not a problem. I realise all things contribute to an end but which would have been the major offender?
Gee we worked hard - to the point where my son and I are going to stick to the ocean for a long time.
Geoff


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 Post subject: Re: Pointing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:39 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1668
Location: Northfield Minnesota
You aren't going to point nearly as well as an FXone, or a Viper. Sloop or Uni. I've had all three.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 5198
Location: Detroit, MI
oziobi1 wrote:
Was this a problem with my jib traveller cars (I kept at them a fair bit), too soft for the main downhaul or a mast rake problem? Boat speed was not a problem. I realise all things contribute to an end but which would have been the major offender?

In lighter air, the jib travellers should be all the way up (towards the mast). That's probably the major offender.

Next in line would be mast rake. You don't indicate the boat's age and/or whether you have low-profile equipment on the main/jib sheets. That has a huge bearing on pointing ability. You may have had too much mast rake for the lighter air and weren't able to sheet in enough to get a firm leech.

Downhaul doesn't have that much effect, nor does the batten tension.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:52 am
Posts: 5
Thanks for the replies.
It is a 2002 Ex-worlds with the Harken low profile mains.
So with the heavier winds I should have the traveller cars way out.
I knew I couldn't point any where near the FXOnes but the whole fleet, including the 16's just sailed away from me once the wind started to howl.
Geoff


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 Post subject: Re: Pointing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
oziobi1 wrote:
It is a 2004 Ex-worlds with the Harken low profile mains.
OK, that makes it easier (and I corrected the date - I competed in the 2004 Worlds in Mexico; the 2002 Worlds were in New Caledonia and none of those boats made it back to the states).

If your jib is original, and you really want to point, you're going to have to replace it. Hobie 16 jibs have a racing life of maybe 2-3 years. They just get blown out.

For a race like this, where it starts out light and is predicted to build significantly, I'd start out with my usual light air set up (about 12 ticks* on the halyard), but with more jib halyard tension. Shrouds would be 1 hole down from their usual spot.

As the wind builds, you start to travel out the main to maintain balance. You don't want to be flying a hull all the time, having to dump mainsheet - that's slow. Ideally, the crew is managing the traveller and/or the mainsheet. Once you start travelling out the main, you need to travel the jib out about 4"-6".

When it's so windy that even travelling out the main isn't depowering enough, start easing the jib halyard. A little goes a long way, and you need to have a mark on the halyard to gauge it. I wrap electrical tape around the halyard at the mast black band at its "nominal" tension. Then I can gauge how much I take up/let out by comparing the tape's position to the black band. This is where the new halyard system with the cam cleat comes in handy. You can preset it with a small loop of loose halyard, then pop it loose when the time comes.

My suspicion is that either you were overpowered (hull pops up a lot, requiring a lot of work on the main sheet) or you were feathering (pinching) too much. Both are really slow. The 16 likes to foot, and you can actually point higher by footing to build speed.

*Ticks on the halyard - with the boat on the beach, fully rigged, but no sheet tension, take the main halyard out to the windward bow, tension it, and mark the position of the top of the bridle bolt with your thumb. Maintain the position while you lead the halyard to the transom; pull tight and count the flecks in the Comptip halyard between your thumb and the bottom of the transom. That's the "number of ticks" (each tick ~ 1"). Light air mast rake ~ 12 ticks. Heavy air ~ 16+ ticks.


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 Post subject: Re: Pointing
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:52 am
Posts: 5
Thank you so much old salt Mbounds. This is the detail I have trolled for over so many pages. The intricacies .... We all want to be the best sailor and every trip is like looking into an encyclopedia.

It is definitely a 2002 because I live in Australia and Curly himself bought this one back from New Caledonia and it sat in some one's (Don's) front yard for 4-5 years without seeing water. This seems a very light boat compared to my '87 previous boat and I was wondering if the first black masts may have been that way.

First I need to get a new jib because that's obviously blown . I traveled out the main generally to the hiking strap with the jib cars probably not in line with the leech but yes I was overpowering all the time with my son keeping me on the water by hanging on the trap. But we were very fast through all this, just going the wrong way. Footing is the way forward and I know they like this but we were wearing thin after so many tacks.

Good on you. you yank sailors. You are keen on disseminating knowledge. Good forum.
gk


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 Post subject: Re: Pointing
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:54 am
Posts: 16
Finally, some racing tips! I'm ok on the new sails part, but we're still on one piece alu masts out here (if anyone at Hobie is listening, we could really do with a new dealer in this part of the world. Oman's buying up everything that is available, leaving the rest of us to fight over scraps).

If 1 tick = 1 inch, then I'm assuming that the same principle can be applied for those of us still racing on non-comp tip's (12 out of 13 boats)?

Cheers, PT.

One idea that mmiller mentioned when I asked about this in an earlier thread, was to keep the weight back over the rudders. Have been trying this with limited success. Upwind in moderate to strong winds it seems to work. In light winds, it seems to suck and getting the transoms out seems to be a better bet. Why would this be?


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