I am thinking about getting a 2011 AI

So what's the upside of this bigger rudder on the new AI? It may be a necessary evil on a boat the size of the TI, but why put a rudder that needs to be bungeed down on an AI?

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chris
I am unable to give you the definitive answer to this yet - but agree. I never had a problem with the old 09 model rudder & certainly don't think it's an improvement to not be able to raise it from the cockpit!

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Mickey
2016 AI Hibiscus
purchased NEW Nov 2021 - My 5th
Adventure Island Sailing since 2008

Another question:

What is the depth or the new rudder compared to the old? How much clearance are we giving up?

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The Wind Is Your Friend...

Thanks for the input Fly4v & I am sure if you have experienced rudder control problems (other than broken pins), you would be happy with the compromise. Personally I love the beefed up rudder arrangement but not too keen on Hobie's compromise. Surely they could design a balanced rudder that is of the new standard but does not kick up. In addition to that I am intrigued by the rudder blade clip that 'locks' the blade to the rudder box. Why was that necessary?

Mickey, I wonder if Hobie in their wisdom have increased the amount of plastic in the boat in order to get around the cracking and thin wall issues some owners have experienced. That extra weight would lower the boat in the water. Has anyone weighed the new hull and compared it against the earlier model? If not you could do that Mickey since you own both models at the moment..Pirate

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Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'

Better helm control for sure. There have been many times that I would have liked more rudder than what was on the older boats.

Understand that the AI rudder concept is for the ability to kick up and from the cockpit. The bungee used on the current 2011 version is a compromise until we get the new (available to all 2011 owners) rudder done. There is much discussion in the forums on the reason for the bungee and the change in rudder design that is coming this spring.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

For those who haven't been keeping pace with the developments, here's what you may have missed:

As I understand it, all the '11 AIs (and all TIs) come with a new rudder that we haven't seen yet, based on the new mounting system -- as Matt says, the bungee rudder is a temporary installation.

IMO, the longer rudders have a potential for improved performance with regard to weather helm, tracking and tacking. Additionally, the larger rudder comes with a newly designed mounting system. This new ('11 AI and all TI) design makes a a couple of significant improvements.

1. Longer mounting bracket and pin withstands much more stress -- a better long term solution to the rudder pin problem.

2. The new external rudder mount eliminates potential problems from the old design (less reliable polyethylene flow into the molded gudgen that occasionally plagued the AIs).

So the new AIs should ultimately have a stronger, more reliable, better performing rudder system.

It most certainly does, on both TI and new AI, and I'm surprised that Hobie decided to run with these handles given this phenomenon. The problem is caused by the inside surface of the handle, which acts as a funnel to send water flying into the cockpit, right into the seat well, and if you happen to be using the steering handle, up the sleeve of your arm. This drove me mad on a recent 7-day expedition.

Fortunately, there's a simple fix. Remove the new midship handles. Remove the rubber/web handles off pontoons. Swap these for the midship handles, and put the new handles on the pontoons. Problem solved. Easy peezy lemon squeezy

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Kayak Fishing Specialist: SLH
https://slhobie.com.au

Great advice fellas. My concern here is Hobie releasing a 2011 before they have it together. Why would you sell a boat with a rudder off another version with a promise to send the new rudders out when they are made? And new handle design that is more nuisance than help. Is it worth it just to get a new (incomplete) model out onto the market to create sales? After all they have had more than a year to improve the AI rudder system since they started busting rudder pins...Pirate

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Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'

If by that you mean the midship handles, I just gave you a 2-minute fixit job. It's not a biggy, and its a non-issue once dealt with. Everything you need to do it is right there in front of you.

If by that you mean steering handles... in my opinion the new one is superior.

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Kayak Fishing Specialist: SLH
https://slhobie.com.au

Maybe I didn't say it very clearly. The 2011 AI was intended to share the TI rudder all along. I'm sure the '11 mold mods were made long before any rudder issues surfaced -- bad timing. The fact that it will share the improved TI rudder (at no charge) is not a bad deal at all! If you're betting against the new rudder, you might be able to purchase the 2011 Adventure rudder and mounting bracket and use the old AI rudder. No doubt, if Hobie didn't think the new rudder design was an improvement, they would have saved some money and kept the old rudder.

It must seem that way at times. To some extent, it's the price of innovation. Change is always chancy. You can test something until you're blue in the face, but the market really wrings it out. When your testing backyard is Southern California then you sell the product all over the world, there are local conditions you can't repeat here. Likewise, when you're testing prototypes with the factory team, you're sure to find some surprises after a thousand production boats are running around with a thousand different users at different skill levels in hugely differing environments.

IMO, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want the latest cutting edge products, you have to be willing to share a certain risk of development. If you want something that has withstood the test of time, you're better off waiting until the product matures.

I suppose you are right Roadrunner, and I value opinions such as yours and Yakass greatly. I rather like the idea of upgrading, but want to be confident that I am improving and not going backwards...Pirate

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Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'

Thats spot on RR, and I suspect thats how it might not have become apparent in field tests that certain conditions (ie: fast sailing on a reach specifically) can cause water to be deflected from the inside of the midship handles into the deck. Fortunately, as I mentioned, that's easily sorted anyway

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Kayak Fishing Specialist: SLH
https://slhobie.com.au

Yakass - I just tried it but they don't fit :o The distance between the holes on the amas and the hull are too different to be able to screw the hull carry handles onto the amas.
I was just going to remove the handles and reinsert the screws. That looks like the best solution for now.

Pirate - I know where there's a brand new papaya AI if you're interested.
Wet Dreams left my place today - bound for Mornington/Mt Martha. I felt a tinge of sadness seeing my old friend depart but am pleased to know it's gone to a good home & a nice new playground.

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Mickey
2016 AI Hibiscus
purchased NEW Nov 2021 - My 5th
Adventure Island Sailing since 2008

Pirate - I know where there's a brand new red one if you're interested.
I also have a VERY interesting story to tell you

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Mickey
2016 AI Hibiscus
purchased NEW Nov 2021 - My 5th
Adventure Island Sailing since 2008

Yes... we do test.

We also sent test boats to a variety of locations around the world. Australia, Europe, Our engineers also did extended trips on the TI in Florida (Everglades Challenge) and do offshore trips here in California to places like Catalina and the Channel Islands camping etc. The product was tested in a variety of conditions and uses.

What changes is production... Molding and machining variance and how different people handle the functions are difficult to predict. This was the primary problem with the rudder. It worked for many and not for others. Slight variances in molding caused rudder lock down issues that pushed the system beyond it's ability to function properly.

So... the decision was made to retrofit the existing system with the bungee and do a complete re-design rather than simply keep trying to perfect the production issues.

What we are getting is a simpler rudder system with superior rudder foil shape and strength. It's looking good!

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)