Righting bucket or solo right?

I will need to be able to solo right my 80' H18, I'm 6'3" and 205 lbs. I would prefer the bucket because of it's simplicity and doesn't require prying open my dagger well... My plan is to get about a 6 gal bucket (50 lb) and add a hook to hang it from my hawiian righting line. I figure 50 lb would be pretty easy to manage and could easily through it over my shoulder. Will this be enough weight?

I tried to solo right on a calm day in a lake and it did not work. Although I'm not entirely sure my mast is completely sealed.

I'd prefer to not add a bob, will I be able to right from turtle with a bucket?

Thanks!

205 isn't enough to right solo w/o assistance... as you know.

I'd venture that an extra 50# won't help.

Git the biggest bag you can, go for the one w/the blocks (4:1)... always better to have too much than not enough. Also, if the bucket says it holds x pounds, in practical realistic use, you should probably only expect to get 2/3d of that from it due to spillage, leaking (it will leak a bit), etc....

I think the big righting bag would work for you at 203lbs.

The Soloright would also work.

seal your mast.

not sure the bucket or anything (other than another person) would work in turtle, how would the bucket get you leverage wehn both hulls are upside down?

The bag at 50lbs hanging from my shoulder is equivalent to a 100lb person hanging on the righting line. So that would be like 300lb of crew righting the boat, not enough?

Does anyone know the required weight to right the 18? Or, is there a recomended crew weight?

As for turtle, the righting bag would just add weight to myself, does it require more energy to go from turtle to "on it's side" or from "on it's side" to upright?

I think you'd have a real hard time righting from turtle while holding a waterbag.... that's an understatement...

again, about the 50lb bag... some will spill... count on a third, maybe more...

I'm 160lbs and could NOT right my H18, w/sealed mast, WITH the BIG righting bag... although the bag was easy to lift w/the blocks... a fair amount of water leaked out... and it was hard to get the bag to fill.

the bag really needs like an 8oz weight in the bottom... and a batten or wire around the opening... this submerges the bag, with the top wide open to fill up... just getting the thing REALLY full was a hassle because the bag more or less floats.

Managing the bag isn't an issue... and I'm really pretty fit... FAR more than average.

So I'd say if you go for the bag, get the biggest.
As for turtle... just seal the mast, and get' er on her side before she goes over.

the soloright is a BREEZE.... I built my own from a 6 foot oar. like anything, if you don't think it through and act haphazardly... sure it'll rip you daggar well... but if you design it w/a stopper or other preventative measure, it will only stub into the well an inch or two... no enough to wedge in and do damage.

good luck! Find a fine friend to sail with... !

Thanks for your input, I guess the solo right is the way to go...

Be a fun little project anyway...

If there's one thing I have a lot of experience with, its righting the Hobie 18. Just ask my friends in Division 11.

I think one of the criteria they use to decided minimum crew racing weight is the minimum weight required to right the boat. For the 18, that is 295 lbs.

The amount of wind also has a lot to do with ease of righting. It is actually much more difficult to right a cat in calm wind than on a windy day. Using the righting technique shown on page 19 of the most recent Hobie catalog can be the difference between success and failure. The less weight you have at your disposal, the more technique you need to use.

Jim Doty
aka: Flipper

thanks for that info j-doty. if daredevil is 6'3" 205, i can see why i can't do it at 5'4" 185. you mention that the weight requirement is 295lbs. is this foot/lbs? the righting force is actually a function of torque and at 6.25 feet at 205 lbs, he is exerting around 800 ft/lbs of torque and this was not enough. (i took 4foot as his center of mass, just guessing, times his full weight.)

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eric, sail #205

Im sure 295lb is just crew weight so if you take that at a 3.5' center of mass your looking at a 1032.5 ft/lbs of torque. That is why I figured; me (205lb x 4') + a righting bucket (50lb x 5.5') = 1095 ft/lb would be sufficient. But this is the minimum force to right the boat... The solo right still has the advantage of putting weight farther out from the point of rotation.

daredevil, you and i are on the same page. excluding environmental advantages/disadvantages, what is the foot/lb requirement to right an 18? i know there are diff techniques, such as dipping the bow and such, but i am looking for just a basic figure to work with... thanks all!

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eric, sail #205

Keep in mind that you can also stand out on the daggerboard to increase your righting moment.

As far as a specific quantity for the righting moment required, I've never heard a published number. You could certainly do a rough calculation based on the mast length and weight (28feet, about 55lbs) plus the weight of the sails, ect (basically do a summation of the weight of each component multiplied by the horizontal distance of it's center of mass from the bottom hull). But keep in mind that any calculation will only be an approximation at best. Wet sails, or sails that are holding water will add significantly to the amount of righting moment required. If your mast leaks, forget it.

The 295lb racing requirement is a ball-park figure. Average sized people "should" have a good chance of righting the boat at that weight. It's definitely not a guarantee though.

sm

Some years ago, while training a student on a H18, a puff of wind came up, the one hull rose, and the student slid completely off the boat. She was helming, so I had no chance, and the old H18 #76 just plain fell over.

Student got rescued by a kayaker, and at 175 lbs, I could not solo right the H18. Even though the winds were 5 - 8 knots and there was a Hobie Bob at the top of the mast.....and I stood on the daggerboard, nothing doing. A righting bucket may have helped, however that is not my style of sailing.

The Club patrol boat came out to pick up the student, drove around to the top of the mast, lifted the mast tip by about 12", and up she came, no problem.

Yup, light winds are more of a issue....and safety is the most important consideration. We now teach our students to 'hang on to something' and do NOT let go - stay with the boat.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

To right a H18 from a "turtled" position ... you use a technic that is opposite to the H16. For the H16 you drive the bows down ===> rolling the boat on its side ... and then just use your standard right technic. For the H18 w/ its much larger buoyancy in its bows, using your righting line, you stand on the gunwale at the stern, lean as far back/out that you can ... and the boats opposite hull will slowly lift and the boat will eventually roll on its side .... and then you just use the standard righting technic ....

That's how you determine the "critical" length of your righting line .... toolong is much better then too short ....

Hey Jim: I'm the H18 "Flip-Miester" of Div11 .... I have had that (dubious) title for years .... just ask Wally ..... now you can be my apprentice if you wish .... (I flipped at Spray Beach w/ Timmy Strasser ..... or .... Megan and I stood my H18Mag (literely) on it's nose/bows, straight up and down, comptip on the water, at the Corsica Regatta {Megan went around the world, and I landed in the mainsail on the Hobie "H" ... what a loooong fall that was .... and then there was the time .........}) Oh , and that does even count the times I flipped my P19MX ===> pitchpole ===> turtle .....

That's how I know how to right a beach cat from a "turtled" position though usually where you and I race the water generally is not deep enough to "turtle" our boats ... but out in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay .....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Can anyone give more details on setting up a solo righting system? Also I sail in the open ocean and water can get pretty rough does this make it anymore of a challenge to solo right? I flipped my Nacra 5.5sl once and my crew could not get back to the boat due to rough seas I tried to solo right it but could not luckly one of my fellow sailors came by and picked my crew up and brough him back. So you may need to solo right your boat even when you have a crew.

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Floyd
00 Tiger
http://www.HobieFleet33.com
10 Mile Surfside, Texas
Join us on our Facebook group: Surfside Sailing

I have never had any luck with the bag either (6'2" 190lbs). My crew is light at 150lbs and it is all we can do to right the SX mast.

I have learned to set my righting system up so I can hook my harness into it and have the crew use my body as leverage by backing out on my chest. It will pop right up that way, both of us hanging on the line doesn't work. Standing on the dagger helps as well but the board can and will slip so be careful doing this.

I have never tried the solo right pole system but a friend that solos his H18 all the time(Genmar Star) uses one and has had no issues. I think he even custom made his system. I would guess he is 6' and 175lbs, sailing a H18SE.

Here's a video in use....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbihZsXESg

note, however, how he's got his righting line seemingly 'pre-tied' to the stern of the hull in the air...

note also, how as he brings the boat up, he goes hand over hand, pulling, reeling the righting line in as the boat comes up... it's not just a "lean back and hang on".

note also, how his body goes well into the water as the boat comes up.

and finally, how his mast is sealed so the boat doesn't turtle.

I made mind from an old 6 foot oar.
I have three 'lines':
- the line that supports the soloright pole
- the righting line I balance with and pull on to right the boat
- the third "line" is actually 2 lines... each is 1 short line tied around the front hull/crossbar intersection. They also have a little block hanging from them.

The SoloRight line:
- when in use, the support line clips to the front UPPER (as the boat lies on its side) corner lines, and the back UPPER tramp line at the corner.
- the support line runs from the front upper corner, down under the soloright, and up to the rear corner. put a snap clip or something on each end of the support line
- when not in use, leave it clipped where you can, roll the rest up, and shove the pole between front tramp lacing, and clip the rear to the rear laces

The righting line:
- each end is tied to the rear holes where the back tramp lacing starts.
- the line runs under the tramp, forward along the inner edge of the hull, to front corner line... through the block, and back to a small carabiner clipped at the center at the rear of the tramp... and back up to the other side of the boat's front corner line, through that little block, and back along the inner edge of the other hull, to tie off at the other side back tramp line start...
- to use, take the righting line out of the little carabiner, the line can extend, (you really don't need the blocks) and you use it to balance while walking out on the SoloRight, then when in position, it's your pulling hand over hand line...

When the boat is up and you're on it, somehow secure the soloright and reclip the righting line (I haven't worked this out to be so graceful yet)

So, check the video, read this... and that's what I've got going.

I'm 5'8" 160 and I need a 7 foot SoloRight. The 6 foot oar wasn't enough, but my testing was in very light wind w/o the wind under the sails (it was shallow water too (5 or 6 feet), and the mast top was in the mud, hard to turn the boat). A 6 foot oar in wind may have worked.

Lastly... I'm going to make a new one in a few weeks.

1" square alu tubing from Lowes, reenforced with a 1" 90deg angle alu section using alu rivets. If I can find expanding foam that doesn't hold water I may fill the tube with it... then put the neoprene trapeze rail stuff on the top, and a pad eye or two to guide the support line and a 1" alu "cap" w/neoprene on the end so it doesn't jam into the bottom of the hull while in use... some sort of small 'fin' to insert about 3/4 or an inch into the dagger trunk. Will prob just glass some 1/4" plywood for this... The current oar cracks and is rotting... the alu won't crack or rot, but it will SINK if I lose it... (hence the float foam..)

Good luck... hope that makes some sense.
-Rob