Can't Lock sail, tried everything?

Hey all,

so this was an issue that started at the end of last season, (we bought the boat, and only managed to lock it in maybe twice in the last season).

So how we go about trying to lock it is pull it up all the way, turn the mast to port, then let the sail sag slightly, which should make it lock no? Well in either case it hasn't worked for us and we're wondering what we're doing wrong. We have the older 18 comptip, we have a new one we still need to install. Also, when we pull the sail up, once it gets to the comptip, it gets super difficult to pull.

any tips / advice?

oh also we have the correct right and twist shackle, bought from Hobie.

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1985 Hobie 16 86068

This should help. In the Sailing FAQ:

Sails - Hoisting Main Sails (Plus: Locking Halyards)

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=371

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Please take some time and research my old posts ..... you will find these very helpful to you ...

Several points:
1) You do not need to "rotate the mast" to hook the mainsail onto the masthead halyard hook.
2) The diameter of the halyard line is important ... 3/16" line is easier to hook due to reduced knot size then 1/4" ...... but it is tougher on the hands
3) Pay close attention to how you tie the "ring" onto the halyard .... the size of the knot is CRITICAL!!!!! (reference point #2 above ...)
4) The "SECRET TWIST" that you induce into the halyard by spinning it BEFORE attaching to the mainsail is very important ... and the direction of the spin is VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!
5) Clean and lubricate the "Luff Track" before raising the mast .... also do the same to the "boltrope" on the mainsail ... I recommend a dry lubricant but bee's wax will work if you are operating in a "sand-free" enviornment.

Now you have the mast up and are ready to hoist the sail ....

6) Hoist the mainsail UNTIL it is approximently 6" below the "masthead halyard hook"
7) Wrap the halyard behind your back ... place one bent leg, up on the rear crossbar .... now close your eyes ... and slowly straighten your leg, this will hoist the mainsail the last several inches .... AND FEEL THE RING TOUCH THE UNDERSIDE OF THE HOOK ... a little more pressure and you will hear a "click" ... the ring has slide over the hook and dropped into the slot in the Masthead Halyard Hook.

If you are YANKING the mainsail all the way up you are hoisting too far ... the halyard ring is too high ... you need to "catch" the top (side) of the ring ... not the bottom (side).

... and if you have a "flipper thingie" you are just causing the ring to go past, and the "flipper thingie" drops back down over the slot (as designed) in the masthead halyard hook and the ring will NEVER be able hook in the slot. And by rotating the mast all the way to one side you are actually swinging the Masthead Halyard Hook clear of the ring/halyard .... that's what you do to UNHOOK & DROP the mainsail .... not HOIST & HOOK the mainsail !!!!

So PLEASE go and read my old posts ..... and remember ....

.... TO FEEL THE HOOK ....

OOOOOMMMMmmmmmm ......... OOOOMMMmmmmmmmm .....

( Grasshopper .... sailing is a Zen thing .... know the sailboat ... feel the sailboat ......)

Good luck

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

The most important thing to do is to point the bows directly into the wind. Most of the time if your bows are straight into the wind, all you need to do is pull the sail all the way to the top and then ease the halyard and the ring will drop right onto the hook. If the wind is coming at an angle to the bow by even 20 degrees, it will blow the sail off to the side which can make it hard to hook.

Otherwise, read the FAQ and do a search, this has been discussed a thousand times already.



Not too sure what you mean by older comptip. There's only ever been one style of comptip for the 18. The only change they ever made was to add a short length of aluminum track at the top of the mast to keep the bolt rope from pulling out.

If you have trouble hoisting, make sure the track and bolt rope are clean. Also make sure the track is smooth where it transitions from aluminum to plastic. Look for deformation of the plastic track where it might be pinched from someone tieing it to their trailer too tight. Make sure your halyard sheaves aren't worn, and spray a little silicone in the track. Always worked for me.

sm

I do everything you do and mine hooks up on the first or second try every time. My boat came with the "Aussie Style" halyard ring as shown on page 25 of the catalogue, for what it's worth (not sure if this makes a difference). Perhaps you aren't letting the sail sag enough before re-centering your rotator arm? What works for me is I raise the main all the way to the top (like you), then push the rotator arm to port (like you), then grab a hold of the the sail tack and physically pull it down with my free hand while the mast is still rotated. If the main comes down a 8" or so (with the mast still rotated), you know it didn't hook. Try again, this time with more/less rotation. Using this method you can certainly feel when it's hooked. Good luck.

Be sure to carry spares w/ you or carry some small 2' pieces of 1/8" vectra/spectra/dynema when you use one of those "Aussie Rings" ..... because ..... I've seen alot of those things fail ... (and I mean alot) ..... and I can even tell you how/where they will fail .... ( more then once we have had to flip a H18 over between races and tie the mainsail headboard to the Masthead Halyard Hook to hold the sail up so that day's racing can be completed ....)

You see how the "twist shackle" is welded to the ring ..... well it's going to eventually fail right beside the weld .... because .... the heat from the welding effects the strength properties of the SS ..... and .... this a a CLASSIC failure mode!!!!! The ring splits open .... thereby unhooking it from the Masthead Halyard Hook ===> down comes the sail .... (usually this happens in the middle of a race .....)

Especially if you have a "upgraded" downhaul system ..... putting a increased load on that "Aussie Ring" .....

Now I'm still using my simple origonal (halyard) ring that came w/ the boat in 1984 ...... (but I had to replace the twist shackle when I dropped the pin in the sand ....) ... and I never have had a failure and not been able to finish a race because of this type of failure .....

Ohhhh .... I usually am able to "hook" my mainsail on the first try ...... BY MYSELF ..... no-one else going crazy rotating the mast from side-to-side ..... ( I've only been raising sails on this same "stick" for .... 27yrs!!!! .... and I think I've learned how to do it w/ a minimum of effort over that time .....)

You guys are hoisting your mainsail too high ..... but if you like "Yanking" on a halyard ..... have at it .....

PS: Mr SRM has some very good points about the "Comptip Luff Track" .... I would follow his advice and inspect it for the conditions he mentioned .....

Remember to score well in a race .... first you need to actually finish the race ....

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Sorry if I was a little "pissie" w/ my last response .....

It's just that I don't like repeating mistakes .... and if something isn't working correctly I try to determine what is going wrong .... develope a solution .... impliment the solution and try to determine if it is the correct and best solution.

The "Aussie Ring" works well ... but ... they break ... usually at the worst possible time ... (ain't that the way ....) ....

So what advise I post here has been learned by my friends and/or myself ... the hard way through personal experiences .... and some of it has been costly at times ..... I just do not see any reason why others need to repeat the same mistakes I've made in the past .......

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

"If I had *any* humility I would be perfect." - Hobie 18 fan Ted Turner

Food for thought, Sir........

You've probably got all the advice you need on this, but I'll add my 2 cents.
Make sure the knot on the ring is facing out (aft) in relation to the mast. If the knot is facing or touching the mast, it pushes the ring out too far to hook up.

Funny, I was told a long time ago to do the exact opposite and that's how we've always done it. Never had any issues with the knot facing towards the mast.

sm

That is incorrect...

From my sail hoist FAQ:



That means the line is routed outside the ring and pulls the ring towards the mast.

This should help...

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I never pay attention to which way the knot faces.
But the knot is small.
No problems.

But I did have problems before I:
- switched to a smaller halyard
- cleaned the track and bolt rope

Lastly... a funny thing not mentioned... if you let the halyard have lots of slack while attaching the head of the sail.... the halyard can blow in the wind to the outside (non-sail track) side of the hook...

Then you're raising the sail up, amazed at how smoothly it goes up 'cause you cleaned the track, got a smaller siameter halyard, etc... and then, just at the end... the thing binds up and wont hook. BECAUSE, now the sail is up tight and the halyard is going on the outside (for me it's the starboard side) of the hook.

If that's the case... just let the sail down a ways until there's slack enough to flip the halyard so it comes straight down along the luff track.

Otherwise man.... just do the zen thing.
Lay the sail out nice, make sure the battens wont catch on anything, the luff is all neat around the base of the mast, and slowly walk back w/the halyard.

When you're a foot or so from the top, give a smooth, even pull and feel the ring click along the bottom of the hook, go up a bit more, and ease it down. "FEEL" the ring settle onto the hook, and hear the 'clink'. AH, amazing so easy. You don't have to fight it. Good luck.

Thanks Matt ....

Thanks Rob ....

Ooommmmm .... Ooommmmmm ....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Harry, I think this might be your shortest post ever

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1992 Hobie Cat 18 #16943
Hobie Fleet 198, Rapid City, SD

Yep .....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11