New to me boat, and a big problem.

Here it the story, I have a lazer that I keep in FL. Its fun enough to me, however its only fun for one person at a time. After the last trip I decided I wanted a boat that would be fun for all of my fishing crew (3-4) who also enjoy sailing. I did some research and a hobie 18 seemed to fit the bill. I began a search on craigslist and accidently came across this one.



Its an 1986(?) magnum. It was listed at $800 for everything including life jackets and a bag full of extra parts including the mainsheet pulleys and such. It was an hour drive away so I got there as soon as I could, however it was nearly dark. It seemed to be in great shape, the owner was very meticulous about things. He said he had not had it out in 12 years because he no longer lived on the lake. I decided to buy it and pulled it home. Got it home and had a neighbor who was an avid hobie fan come take a look and show me how to rig it. Everything went up great. I decided to go ahead and get it ready to haul to FL from my home in SC. While I was inpecting the trailer for a 500 mile drive I noticed a bulge running down the starboard hull. Did some research on the delamination problems and it appears I have a huge problem. The visible bulge is about 2" wide and runs pretty close to the decal. It starts about 10" from the nose of the hull and runs to the dagger board where it turns up to the top and cracks. There is a crack running running the length of the soft spot, bigger towards the tramp, pretty small at the front. The inside of the hull has another soft spot, no bulge but it runs from 10" from the nose and gets solid 20" before the tramp. I checked the FAQ, and I am confident in the repair procedure, however I have read that any more than 2sqft means the hull is trash. Is my hull repairable? Or am I now stuck with 1/2 a hobie? Would buying a used but good hull be the best bet? Pictures are worth a thousand words so here are a few of the damage.

Here is the back of the crack.


Middle area, opens up more here.


The front, its pretty small here

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2010 AHPC C2 #218

the photos don't show the bulge clearly, can you post another showing it?
It looks like a crack between the deck and hull joint. looks like it started near the shroud and moved forward. It does not look good. Is there any inward flexing at the crack? In daylight, what do you see from inside the port?

How do the bulge and crack relate to each other? If the rigidity of the hull-deck joint is comprimised, it could push out the side. But if the joint is cracked open that's a big problem.

Calling Dr. Jeremy!

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

even if the hulls are trash, its worth that much in parts.. (trailer, sails, and wings mainly).

Although you may be anxious to get out on the lake, I wouldnt look at this situation as making a terrible purchase. Worse case scenario is you part out in which you would easily make your money back and more.

You could probably make your money back on the wings alone.

This is pretty much the standard failure mode of boats from this era - cracking at the front crossbar connection. This boat was never retro-fitted with the new anchor plates. May be fixable, may not. It depends on how much time and money you want to throw into it. I wouldn't even put it on the water until you make at least minimal repairs. This would include fixing the visible cracks at the crossbar connections. Fiberglass both inside and outside the hull (the port hole provides a fairly easy access point). Also install the fiberglass patch and upgraded hull anchors. If the rest of the hull is sound, it may be worth fixing.

sm

First the bulge turns up into the deck and turns into the crack first pictured, thats the relationship. I cant get the bulge to show up in a picture.

I am gonna look for a hull for a while I guess. I would rather spend $250 on a hull and be good than spend $150 for materials and a couple hours work to see if it might work. I am comfortable injecting resin, however glass work is something I have never been great at. I guess I should have taken a closer look, learned my lesson I guess I was too excited about it.

I am on the search for a new hull(s) now. As my luck would have it, there is a good white one only an hour away from me. Port side that is

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2010 AHPC C2 #218

Let's start w/ a few things first ...

1) On the transom ... up new the lip there should be engraved a serial number ... the last three numbers and letter will tell us what month/yr (the numbers) the boat was produced ... and the letter is a code also for a month. The is a detailed discription on how to decode it here on the forum, (
I just don't now where.)

Note: That "stripe" is known as a "Moluki Stripe" and was availible from the factory in the mid 80's ... (My 84' hulls and 86' hulls had it on them)

2) Pressure test your hulls by using a vacum cleaner/shop vac on "blow" .... place over the drain plug in the transom .... feel along that crack under the lip (gunwale) and see if you feel any air coming out .... you can use a solution of 50% dishsoap and brush it on and look for bubbles .... (this will take two people) .... be easy on the pressure as you "over-pressurize" the hull ...

Now what concerns me is that I do not see any "Reinforcing Plates" at the front crossbar in the pic's ... that boat should have them (they are just like the ones at the shroud anchor point ... you may wish to research here about red-line/red-foam H18's .... I suspect that's what you have.

Do those thing and let's us know what you find out ... please note I have repaired hulls that exhibit the issues you may have ..... it's not too difficult ... but it is takes "time" .....

You may wish to take a look at the top thread here on the H18/H18SX Forum about new hulls .... look at Must5429's post about is "used" hulls .... Stephen keeps his equip in tip-top shape .... those "used" hulls are some of the last production hulls made ... until the last special production run made last year. (Now I expect Stephen will be going to the "Mini-Mega" in Miss in June .... and maybe there is someone coming from the East Coast that could bring them to you from there .....)

I do have a old set of extra hulls but they need alot of work ... "gellcoat" blisters ... the hulls/boat was flooded and allowed to sit submerged and looks like it has a bad case of mosquitto bites ... everywhere!!!! .... they need to be completely sanded and then painted. But if you decide that you don't/can't fix the H18 you have, I may be willing to purchase your boat ... rebuild my old extra hulls and donate the boat to my Yacht Club's Sailing School ....

You may contact me at [email protected] ....

But the first take the first steps I listed ... and we'll determine what your "options" are ..... I do hope it's not too bad and your boat is fixable ....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

I was able to picture the bulge, and inside of the bulge. Forgive me as my blackberry cannot light up the inside of the hull much but this crack is what the entire length looked like as far as I can tell.

Thanks for the help so far!

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2010 AHPC C2 #218

Ok, you boat was made in June 1986 ....

I was wrong about the stripe being a "Moluki Stripe" ... which is three seperate stripes ... 5/8" wide .... Top to bottom ==> silver, med grey, black .... I have the same strip as yours on those old set of hulls (yellow) w/ the gell coat blisters ....

Now the bulge can be fixed by injecting West Epoxy ... pulling a vacuum (vacuum bagging) ... and allowing the delamination to press together ....

But the cracks ..... that is a seperate issue .... and will require laying some new cloth w/ resin (I would recommend West Epoxy again). From the pic's it looks like the crack in near the front crossbar ....

1) Remove the hullport and ring .... mask off the outside area ...
2) Make fiberglass rope by rolling 6" wide Fiberglass cloth "Tape" .... I sew it w/ thread to keep it together ..... this will be installed inside the hull at the point/joint where the hull meets the deck to fill the voids there ... you may find "red" putty oozing out from that joint in places ....
3) when that is "tacky" you want to recoat the area w/ resin ... and then lay in several layers (3-4)of cloth .... crossing the "weave" of the fabric if possible ... the cloth should extend down the hull and onto the underside of the deck. Now you can put extra layers on the inside ....

You should do this on both out-board and inboard sides ....

4) You should layer in several layer under the crossbar "cradle" .... this will help tie both side together .... spread the load out .... and help this area from crushing under load ...
5) Now you're left w/ just repairing the crack on the outside .... sand the area clean ... removing all gellcoat ..... coat w/ resin .... layer several layer of cloth on the outside being sure to "cross" the weaves .... allow to harden ... sand and fair .... then you are ready to apply a final layer of cloth, this can be of "lighter" wieght .... if you can find it ... "E" cloth .... sand and fair ....

And you should do BOTH hulls since the port hull was constructed the same as the starboard ....

Now this is not technically difficult ... but will take SERIOUS time to do .... it took me 1-2 weeks working in the evenings to do both hulls ... it's best if the boat is disassembled .... the hulls layed on their side ...

Get on the internet and find "Jamestown Distributers" and "West Marine Epoxies"/Gougeon Brothers.

Do your reseach and contact me if you wish ..... now everyone is correct about selling the boat for parts ... but I think I can repair it for the sailing school .... and would be willing to try for the kids ... who keep on asking me to take them sailing on a "multihull" ..... (we have pic's at RHYCSS of four Junior Sailers that flipped my H18Mag and had to right it .... the Sailing School Director went out w/ the kid's parents ... checked on them .... stood by .... and let them right the H18Mag by themselves .... while pretending to be dis-interested ... we joke that they were "just" washing the sails ...)

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

I did a little vacuum bagging on aircraft stuff in school. I could probably use some of the equipment at that school for that. Will that correct the soft area/crack in the bulge? I think I can handle this repair, all though working through that 6" hole is gonna be tricky.

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2010 AHPC C2 #218

Yep ... it's a little "tight" ...

A couple of points ...

... Thats why I recommend removing the porthole ring to give you more room ...(you may need to purchase new ones since removing the rivets is "problematic" ... I've never had much luck and usually ruin the ring ... re-install w/ machine screws so you can remove it later if you need to)

Be careful w/ any lights you have inside the hull .... a ol' fashion lightbulb if left in contact w/ the hull, if it falls over for example and not noticed, can "burn" the resin ... the cloth will be fine .... but no resin will remain ... (don't ask how I know that ...)

I made up sticks that I could attach my disposable "china" bristle brushs to that extended my reach .....

I went to a glass/mirror shop and had them cut some mirrors 6"X9" .... then I made some stands from 2"x6" pieces w/ a slot cut at 15* to hold them ... and I learned how to work by looking in the mirrors ..... (everything is backwards ...)

Plastic "Microwave" Dinner trays make very good "mixing pans" ... you'll need a supply of them ..... rotate them often ....

As I recommended use West Marine Epoxy ... don't be cheap .... get the proper "Mixing Pumps" .... and count your pumps ..... the pumps are "metered/calibrated" ... so it's one pump to one pump ...... DON'T mix too much .... I usually can not use more then 4-5 pumps at a time .... mix small batches .... except when doing the fiberglass "rope" .... immerce that in a "mixing pan" to saturate it then place it in place .... (it will be a mess!!!)

The solvent for the epoxy is expensive .... it's much cheaper to just throw the brushes away ....

You can buy disposable gloves at a medical supply store much cheaper then at a "Marine Store" .... (imagine that!!!!)

Use/wear a old LONG SLEEVE shirt when you are epoxying .... you'll throw it away when you are done ..... if you can get a "Tyvek" suit they're GREAT!!!!

I'll think of more ... Keep in touch ... and I'll help you as much as I can ....

(You can rig "rodholders" off the magnum wings w/ PVC pipes and hoseclamps ....)

Oh .... WELCOME TO THE H18 CLASS .... to the world of "Multihulls" and SPEEEEED .....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

http://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html

They sell a home brand and "west system" brand. Home brand is much more affordable than the name brand "west system" stuff. I bought some gelcoat from them last year, very affordable product, shipping, etc. Highly recommended.

To OP: was this boat on the Jacksonville classifieds?

Thanks the link, saving money is always a good thing. Fortunately for me my brother built a boat last year and there is considerable west brand left over from that project that I will try to use first.

No, I bought this boat out of Assheville NC

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2010 AHPC C2 #218

That bulge and crack are not typical redline failure. It looks like compression damage to have bulged the outer and cracked the inner skin. Typical delamination does not crack the inner skin the entire length. I feel there has been significant weight on that hull, look for additional stress cracks at the keels especially around the rollers on the trailer. It may be repairable.
The cracks at the lip are not a real big issue to fix but that inner crack is very suspicious. Good luck with the repair. Now you know why it was only $800. Owner knew the hull was damaged. Boats worth 2k easy with wings and no damage.

Hi Bacho,

I've been "worrying" your problem in my idle moments for the last several days in my free moments ....

So I have come up w/ some more suggestions ....

I think you should contact the following people ....

1) [email protected] ph# (831) 475-7245 He is a "Hobie" Dealer/"Multihull" Supporter located in the San Diego Calif .... he has developed many good videos on fixing different types of "problems" w/fiberglass hulls .... he posts here on the "Hobie Forum" and "Catsailor Forum" also ... I would contact him and send him "pic's" .... and ask his advice .... he has a great reputation in the "Multihull" community ......

2) Contact Mr Jake Kohl of Greenville S.C. (is that near you???) ..... you can reach him at [email protected] .... he posts on the "Catsailer" Forum .... he is very knowledgible .... he has alot of experience in fixing fiberglass boats .... he even owned a H18 at one point I believe ..... he too is well known and respected in the "Multihull" community ..... maybe you can get him to stop by and look at your problem .....


Now I've come up w/ a slightly different plan .... have you ever carvered a "pumpkin" ?????

Your problem is one of "access" ... so you can fix the hulls .... so first you need to completely strip the hulls .... if you look closely at the H18 hull construction, your will notice that the very bottom of the H18 hull is "solid" fiberglass that extends up both sides, then it turns to foam core construction .... measure that distance .... now w/ the hulls upside down you are going to cut several openings .... if you mark out a opening that stays in the "solid" fiberglass constructed area and set your jigsaw to a 15* bevel .... you can easily cut out several openings along the bottom/keel .... now my experence has been it's just as easy to fix a large hole/cut-out as a small one but a large one is easier to work through ..... by this doing this it will allow you "easy" access to the inside of your hulls ..... sand/prep the inside surfaces ... you then will be able to reinforce the deck/hull seam area ... reinforce the cradles ... install layers of cloth and resin to fix the crack .... now you will need to install a "lip" so you can re-install the pieces you cut-out .... West Systems sells a 45* bias "heavy cloth 6" wide "tape" you can sandwich between the hull and strips of "marine" plywood (4mm?) that you epoxy in place .... you may wish to fully enclose the plywood in some additional layers of regular 6" wide fiberglas tape .... re-install the pieces you cut-out and saved, fill and fair will thickened epoxy ... and re-skin as I discribed in one of my earlier posts ....

Now the cause of the cracks is the "toeing in" of the hulls under load ... this is famous in the "red-line/red-foam hulls due to their lighter construction ... and as the hulls get weaker then they start to flex vertically too, till one day .... rrrrriiiiippppp ... the bow tears away (you remember I mentioned earlier about my 84' hulls and the 86' hulls .... the 84's ===> red-foam ===> RRrriiiipppp ===> Hobie had to replace them w/ a set of 86/87 hulls under warranty) ... so a suggestion .... while you have access .... install a horizontal "sub-deck" ... you can use "Nomex" foam core or marine plywood (the early P19's had a problem w/ "toe-in" and thats how they solved the problem in later production runs and the Mystere 6.0's was made w/ them and they are super stiff hulls) ... so I would install a "sub-deck" from just behind the front crossbar (maybe from the daggerboard trunk) ... forward for 2-3' in front of the front crossbar as this is were the most compression loading is .... this will "tie" the two sides of the hull together so they stay "in column" .... this flexing/bulging may have caused the long "bulge" in your hull ....

(to check the "early" P19's you run the palm of your hand over the in-board side of the hulls just in front of the front crossbar feeling for ripples/waves ... and sometimes you see actual vertical cracks ... to fix properly, you have to "pop" off the foredeck and install a "sub-deck")

Now since your brother and you have experience w/ West Epoxy ... you know what "amine blush" is correct??? And understand how that effects your procedures/timing for epoxying ....

Bounce thse ideas/concerns off of Jeremy and Jake .... and let me know what they advise .....

Again this is not too technical work (at least in my mind ...), but will take a serious amount of time ( I actually enjoy these kind of "projests" ....)

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11