Using a mirage for aerobic exercise?

Assuming I'm considering a sport or an outback, how viable are they as platforms for aerobic workouts.

Two concerns of mine:

1) Under strenuous extended use, are they comfortable? Do the seats and everything keep you in a relatively optimized posture so you're not fidgeting and repositioning constantly? Can I go pretty hard for 30 or 40 minutes without having something start aching or falling asleep?

2) Assume I'm going to be doing about an hour every other day in the middle of a channel on a small river. No risk of bumping into hazards. Am I going to be spending hundreds on replacement parts every week? Or are they made to hold up to strenuous use like this? So extended periods of a lot of force going through the pedals every other day.

I've read quite a few threads on this forum that have me a little uneasy about purchasing for this intended use. There's no question that they're awesome for casual use in my mind. But I've read quite a few threads now that have me feeling that they're not really up to being used as you're alternative to running or biking every day. There's a lot of wear and tear even if you don't hit anything and given the proprietary design and nature of replacement parts, you'll be sinking a lot of money and time waiting for the mail.

If that's the case, I'm not in any rush and can keep biking and running until hobie comes up with a beefier solution. I realize these are currently designed for fishing and casual use, not really for what I'm going for, but the thought of launching one from my back yard and getting a workout in the morning is very compelling.

Are you a Pro Bike racer? Whats your age and your Goal?
The Hobie will stand up to extended hard Pushing and Pulling. A different set of muscles as compared to bike riding. I typically Troll at 3.5 mph while fishing, heart rate elevates to 90-100, no sweating on my part at age 61. The hardest I can go In my outback is 4.5 to 5 mph and I get winded in about 4 or 5 min..

Hard for me to tell what you are looking for...

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Hobie Fishing Team Rider
Stay Fit, Go Fish, and Have Fun
SpinfisherBob
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpinfisherBob

Fwea2, welcome to the forum. Good questions.

I pedal for a timed hour, nonstop at what I call a fast cruise three times weekly. This is about 130 to 140 bpm and a good aerobic workout for me. Additionally, I usually do 3 to 5 sprints and otherwise just screw around for another 30 minutes to an hour each session.

Comfort wise, I would start squirming after about 30 to 40 minutes with the standard seat. That was solved that with the i-comfort seat pad. I can now sit easily for over 2 hours. I also find one of the older Hobie seat backs more supportive for the back and use that style exclusively. I use custom heel straps on the pedals and enjoy full leg support as a result. Many users are totally comfortable with the standard equipment, but you can certainly customize your ride to suit your comfort needs.

I put about 800+ miles yearly on the Drive at this pace and with current equipment, average about 500 to 1200 miles between part replacements. But I also inspect and lube at least weekly (and adjust as necessary). The wear rate also depends on the turbidity of the water you're in. Some of the older Drives seem to have a higher parts failure rate, particularly drums and sprockets -- the current equipment is vastly superior IMO (the older Drives can also be updated).

A constant high level of use also puts a lot of strain on the boat as well. You'll find the '09 and newer models (with Click N Go Drive locks) more durable for heavy users.

If you're considering a Sport, you must be about 5' 10" or shorter and under 200 lb. If you're an experienced cyclist, you may still find the cockpit length a little short and would want to be sure to demo the boat first. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what boat you use as far as the workout is concerned. Keep in mind though that if your output is over about 125 watts, both of your choices will tend to rock back and push a lot of water. If you want something that is quieter and smoother at speed, the Revolution or Adventure should be included for your consideration.

Finally, if you want a good work-out, you will most likely want to upgrade to Turbofins for your Drive.

Nice picture...looks like you are at a good speed for Tuna Trolling.

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Hobie Fishing Team Rider
Stay Fit, Go Fish, and Have Fun
SpinfisherBob
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpinfisherBob

We live in an area where we can walk out our doors and be able to walk some some fairly challenging hills. I had a knee operation two years ago in August, and if I don't do some hills 3-5 times aweek, my knee gets stiff.

My wife went to working only 1 day a week in May of last year. She started joining me on some good walks.

Our legs were in good shape but our abs like most 70 year olds were on the soft and not used status.

My wife and I bought an Oasis last June. Both of us have had serious shoulder injuries and paddling kayaks for long distances or with wind or tides was not a choice.

When we mastered not falling out of the kakak, we could only go about a mile before having to rest.

Then, we worked up to about an hour with no real rest, some rest and about and hour to return to the launch.

It was then, that I discovered besides my legs, my abs felt the time and were actually a good accidental target from using the Mirage Pedals.

From July to November between the Oasis 1-2 times a week and the hills 3-4 times a week, both of us lost 8-10 lbs. I dropped two waist sizes. The hills became easier to climb.

The sad news was with the bad weather we had from the second week in November to about now, we didn't go kayaking. Besides the bad weather, dodging 20-30' trees floating around and other crud in the water, we don't enjoy getting wet and cold.

So both of us have gained back the weight and me my belt size. Our walking was also, impacted during this time. Our walks were limited to seizing some daylight time without rain or traffic on our hills which have no sidewalks.

We are looking forward to getting back to kayaking and walking on a regular basis.

Re the seats, we added the twist rings on the end of the seat pegs, and the seats stay in most of the time. My wife was very uncomfortable after about a half hour until I bought her the inflated seat addition. Now she has no problem even with two + hours in her seat.

Besides the positive physical end benefits from using our Mirage Oasis, it is the one outdoor activity that my wife enjoys sharing with me and vice versa.

We have gotten with 40' of a beautiful bald eagle and after Labor Day, often we were the only people on our local lake. In October, we would pedal through large and varied flocks of ducks, geese and other water birds which had migrated down and were resting at the lake planning to stay.

As our skills and confidence levels increase, this year we plan to use our river, which has winds, tidal flows and normal flows and using the yak in Bodega Bay Harbor.

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2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder

Thanks for the responses guys.



I'm in my late 20's, and am not a professional athlete or anything. 6', ~ 160 - 170 lbs. Maybe a few competitions for fun but not anything serious. My goal is to stay out of the gym's aerobic machine room really. If I run too consistently things start hurting and I end up there. If I mix in biking (on an amateur road bike, nothing too fancy), I can spread it out so I don't really lose out to pain from running, but it's an ordeal to pack everything up and drive to the better biking areas. So I'm looking to use this hobie kayak to stand in for the bike as I live on the river and nothing can beat that convenience.




I live about ~4 - 5 miles from up river from the Chesapeake Bay, so I'd be in brackish water, with a good amount of muddiness I guess, you can maybe see 3 or 4 feet before things disappear into the brownness.

I'll definitely consider those models as well. Overall size is a small consideration as there is a possibility of wanting to strap this to a ~50' catamaran somewhere. That's only a minor consideration for now, but it'd come to play before noise and speed come in. As long as I'm pedaling enough to keep the heart going, I don't mind if I'm not moving all that fast, dragging a huge wake, and making a racket.

Thanks for your maintenance routine too. I think it put me beyond the internet research step onto the renting and trying them out step.



Thanks for the lengthy response, I'll definitely look to the inflated seat addition. Maybe even into gifting a kayak or two to the parents next winter

My target is 3 days a week, but my log says i get 40-50 days per year since 2008.... I am close to the bay and typically stay in motion 3-4 hours I love it, no way would I go to a gym tread mill for 4 hours...I think the aerobic guy will benefit from the cross training aspect the most...Peace

_________________
Hobie Fishing Team Rider
Stay Fit, Go Fish, and Have Fun
SpinfisherBob
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpinfisherBob

I think it is alot easier to work the mirage drive than it would be to make the circular motions of a bicycle. Also, it is alot more enjoyable to be on the water!

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Brandon Boren

I use my Outback for both aerobic cross training and fishing - usually spend 1-2 hours when out for exercise, and 5-6 hours when fishing. I don't have any complaints about seat comfort - though I definitely do readjust from time to time, and have been known to fish with my legs hanging over the side. I'm 6'3" and 190lbs, if that helps. Definitely more comfortable than perching on my bike's seat for an hour.

I've put turbo fins on my drive, and I don't have any problem getting my heart rate up (and am distance runner in good shape). By the GPS, I cruise at 4.8 mph or so, and mix it up with occasional sprints. Personally, I find the motion more akin to a stair stepper than cycling - there isn't any rotation to the pedals, it's just forward and back.

I also own an Oasis, so have 3 drives between the 2 yaks, and I haven't had any serious trouble with any of them. I had an issue with a tear in a fin, so I bought a spare fin just in case it ever fails. That was over a year ago, and the torn fin hasn't gotten any worse. All the other components have held up well, and I don't do much except flush off the salt water and lube the drives from time to time.

Hope that helps - I don't think you'll be disappointed, and being out on the water beats working out in a cardio room any day.

Hopefully, my wife and I can get our Oasis back into the water for the enjoyment and exercise, next week.

We were taking our 2.5+ mile walk up and down our local hills yesterday morning, and got passed by two gals running and two doing power walking. As usual, none were smiling, we call them the grimmers.

She is an office RN for one of the busiest FP's in wino country for over 30 years.

She made a comment that these 4 will probably be needing knee replacements and maybe hip replacements in their early 50's to 60's due to their running on the streets.

She went on to note that it was a rare runner in their practice in their 50-60-70's, who didn't need knee replacements and with the women often needing hip replacements. Now, they are starting to see women power walkers with the same problems.

In the church, we attend, my wife and I are in the minority of the large total number of people in their 60-70's, who haven't needed knee and/or hip replacements. Of those, who have had replacements, everyone we have talked to, had been a fairly hard core runner on the local streets. Some are headed for their second replacements or have had them.

One of the younger orthopods in town has apparently, labeled the increased need for hip/knee replacements, the yuppie/boomer runner syndrome or the new gold rush for the ortho pods.

We will stick to our 10-12 minute/mile unhurried walks and our Oasis, when the weather is good for our exercise.

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2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder

I have a LOT of time spent cycling. I avereaged 15-20K miles a year for many many years and as such I was always curious about the mirage drive as a means of propulsion on water.

I think someone mentioned to consider the adventure. This was the first Hobie I tried during a demo day and I can tell you that it is pretty fast on the water. One of these with turbo fins seems like a great place to start.

If you are tall or long legged you may find that you cant quite get the leg extension that makes for a "better" comparison to cycling on all the models. I ended up going full tilt on a TI because I wanted the real estate of the rear drive area for myself....and I needed a tandem.

It really isnt the same as cycling though, because there is no orbit motion around a central axis like on a bike so its a different workout. Its more like a roller blade-ing workout without the side to side. You press the left foot and press the right, repeat. I find that I dont really need to pull back with the opposite leg during a press cycle with the other either. The cadence is there and the potential for cardio is there too but its different.

So far the best cardio workout for me was using the TI as a kayak, peddling with the mirage drive AND at the same time using the Hobie kayak paddle! That was a good all-around workout! I felt it in the midsection of my core and the legs and got the heart pumping too!

I have since retired the Hobie paddle for a single bladed canoe type paddle that I hope to try soon. It is seemingly easier to manage and stow with kids on the tramps and I am looking for fewer more powerful strokes when coming into a tricky situation like coral heads as. I can use it to steer the boat and since I sail fully laden with a wife and two kids the power I need is tough to get from the typical type kayak setup due to the crafts weight and size of the paddle ends. This is my thinking for now.

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2011 TI

Ho, I'm outtah wind jus reading your workout.....Give my Aloha to Windward Boats and Boggie D if you see them. You try race the outriggers in Kailua?

_________________
Hobie Fishing Team Rider
Stay Fit, Go Fish, and Have Fun
SpinfisherBob
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpinfisherBob

I have an older model drive which has not been upgraded yet and I would say that they can wear (IMHO) fairly quick with heavy use. The shafts are stainless steel (which is a soft metal) and the sprockets are plastic. There are no bushings, wear is direct to the parts and as roadrunner similarly mentioned, with turbid water, wear is increased to those parts. With heavy use they would have needed changing probably every 12 months, maybe a little less if you wish to eliminate all excessive play, but it will still operate even if you do not change them regular.

As said, I have not upgraded, but I here the wear in a V2 is a lot, lot, better and it is something I will probably look at if I start going back out.

Throughout the use/ownership of my AI (Adventure kayak with Island kit), I have been suffering from spinal injuries in both the neck and lower back and also a right shoulder issue. Due to my injuries, riding bikes and running, were too high impact sports/exersize and swimming became extremely difficult because of my shoulder.
Using the Adventure kayak, Mirage drive and the smoother ride on the water took a lot of the high impact away, and still gave me aerobic exercise to levels I could handle (which in most cases was not high). I was also (though my technique was poor) able to pick up the paddle and have low impact aerobic exercise for the upper body as well and worth also thinking about (learn good technique though to lower the risk of shoulder injury).

One thing no one has mentioned and it may be just me? I found the seat backrest would always move and my posture would always change for the worst. A simple fix was to add a 3 bar slide to both of the seat straps, meaning the seat straps then passed through 2 sets of buckles. The original buckle and the 3 bar slide that I added, then the slip was stopped and my seats back support held it's position.

I read many years ago on one of the forums, "You will never get fit from a mirage drive, they cannot supply enough impact". Well IMHO, that's a load of bollocks, you can get good quality aerobics and it is without high impact to joints etc, as long as good posture and good technique are used and maintained.

Another thing that does not get mentioned, and normally is only an issue to disabled or the elderly, is balance. Using both paddle and pedal on a kayak on wobbly water, does help grow a more natural awareness of balance and using a paddle, gives you greater support than the pedals. So while you may not think about it, pedalling not only gives you aerobic exercise, it gives you better sense of balance.

Something also worth a look, is maximising your leg stroke and Yakass (Josh) has an interesting article worth reading;
The Geared Mirage Drive
For memory, Roadrunner also did a good article on tuning your Mirage Drive to get the best performance and wear out of one. I have not been able to find it so someone else may do so for you.

Cannot wait to get back out and using mine again.

I had planned on training this spring for two kayak races. Unfortunately, the Adventure hull developed a crack and it took several weeks to replace. So much for training. I didn't even bother entering the races.

I had planned on putting my Adventure in a boat parade (decorated up) but unfortunately, the kayak has been in the shop for almost a month waiting for a part. It seems the replacement hull that was sent was manufactured with the wrong part which caused the 4 times stronger than steel rudder line to break. I'm still waiting to get the kayak back. It is quite frustrating. They used the wrong part? How can Hobie afford to stay in business with such poor production quality control?

While the Mirage drive kayaks are okay for a once or twice a month trip, they tend to fail frequently when put under the stress of daily use, especially when used with the turbo fins. Pedals break, things come loose, fins are easily damaged, lines break, etc. Inspect the drive unit after every use...

Have a backup plan for your aerobic fitness because until Hobie manufacturers a Mirage using higher quality parts and better production standards, there will likely be a lot of down time. So far this year, I've been without the Hobie 35 percent of the time.

Let that reader get in a mirage drive kayak with turbo fins and have them pedal and paddle at the same time for two hours in a race. As with all aerobic activities, the harder you push, the higher your heart rate.