Mirage for Expedition Race

Hello All,
I am a long time lurker who has owned a Sport and an Outfitter for about three years. I am considering doing one of the Water Tribe expedition type races next year (Mar 2012). Specifically, I am considering either the Ultra Marathon (67 miles Tampa Bay to Charlotte Harbor) or the Everglades Challenge (Tampa Bay to Key Largo ~250 miles). The race rules require you to be self sufficient and carry everything that you will need including camping equipment, food, water, safety and communication. My approach to the race is that I am more focused on finishing than going really fast. Here are my questions:

1. Boat Choice - Clearly my Sport is not the boat for this. The AI would be the fastest choice but that boat would put me in the catamaran class and I want to stay in one of the kayak classes. I don’t think that I need the extra payload of the Outback so that leaves the Revo and Adventure. I guess the real question is how much faster is the Adventure compared to the Revo? From a logistical perspective, the Revo would be much easier for me to transport/store (length) and would fit better with my normal kayak usage. Another approach would be to get an Oasis and use it solo (I have been thinking of trading my Outfitter for an Oasis). Where would a solo Oasis fit in the speed range? Any other thoughts?

2. Has anybody modified their Mirage for this type of expedition? If so I would love to hear what you have done. What about sleeping on board? It seems to me that sleeping while anchored in shallow water would be a good way to avoid wildlife and sand fleas. I can envision using some foam for a mattress and the Hobie dodger and bimini for shelter. I would also use the amas for additional stability. Again, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks for all your help!

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Mark N
Outfitter
Revo 13

That's a monster race that many AI's and a few TI's have had trouble completing. I'm not sure I'd use them as the first race for a new boat.

If you're planning on working your way up to those races, and you want to use a Mirage Drive boat, in the kayak class, I'd say that you have to go with the Adventure. The Adventure is much better then the Revo if you need to go long distances. I'm assuming that the Oasis, solo, would be no better then the Revo for speed, probably even worse given it's added width.

There are people on this forum who have done those races, and before you buy any boat, I'd talk to them first. If an Adventure doesn't suit your "normal kayak usage" then you really need to decide if you want a boat for ultra distance races, or if you want a boat for your normal usage.

Those are monster races, and most people wouldn't advise even attempting them in anything but the most efficient boat. I highly doubt that anyone who has attempted those races would advise you to use anything but and Adventure, and they probably wouldn't advise even trying it on that boat.

If you really want to do that race, get an A.I., train a LOT, give it a go. Then once you have some personal knowledge of it, make the decision on if you can even attempt it on a pure kayak.

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Don't know the races other than by reading about them but...

1. I would be hard pushed to sleep comfortably under my dodger - and I guess you would need to carry an anchor of some sort = more weight.
2. I would suggest the Adventure over the Revo - but be aware that the ama bars and the extra internals on the AI hull (in kayak mode) add significantly to its weight - doesn't much matter for short trips but over longer distances when you will already have your boat loaded up I would not want to be carrying any more than I had to.
3. Beware drive breakages on long trips - take sufficient spares and make sure you can effect repairs at sea. In this regard I would suggest a properly adjusted drive with the stainless sprockets for easier maintenance as per my other recent posts in this forum.
4. Can you use the standard sail in the race ? Are the conditions likely to to be suitable for kayak (as opposed to AI) sailing the course ? Might be worth considering if within the ruiles and if you can be reasonably sure of good sailing wind strength and direction
5. (Obviously) go light - use a bivvi-bag with a built in mozzie net to sleep in (but practise in it first as they take some getting used to) - take minimal equipment: lightweight stove, lightweight high calorie food, minimal clothing, plastic water containers, ditch the cart at your departure point etc - it is amazing what you can do without/how much unnecessary clobber some people carry - possibly not your typical endurance race crowd, but in general most people take much more than they need/can use. All you really need for comfort is some dry clothing, warm food and a good night's sleep - the rest you can do without for a few days.

What if you purchase the AI and used it with just one AKA? Would it still classify under the Catamaran class? I'm guessing probably since a full AI is considered a trimaran. Not familiar with those races either. 67 miles is a long f'in way to me, and at 5 mph...250 miles....FORGET IT!!! For me anyway

Anyway, just by multiple reviews of the Adventure, AI, and Revo; I would also vote for the Adventure if the AI is not permitted. Looking at the review from RoadRunner in comparing the Adventure to the Revo may help quite a bit.

Best of luck and take lots of pics when you go

Hobie ,needs to add a canoe brand to its line of fine watercraft ? With both electric and mirage drives options, I'm disable and want/need a mirage drive in a Decked Sea Canoe ( No SOT for me) because I sometime get low blood sugar or blood pressure and past out . So I need to be able to lay down inside the canoe, until I can recover or I'm founded. If Hobie built a Decked Canoe like the Kruger Seawind or better, the Superior canoes Expedition model . I would buy it and would think others like me ,would also buy it ,for year around fishing,hunting,tripping, sailing, And that watertribe and texas 200 race.

Hey everybody,
Thanks so much for the replies. This information plus a couple of Roadrunner's posts from several years ago really helped me decide what I want to do. The bottom line is that I am interested in starting to do some longer range stuff whether or not I participate in one of the Water Tribe events. I am heading over to demo some boats this week but I suspect that I will go with a Revo. I believe that it is the right boat for 90% of my kayaking. Certainly the Adventure is faster but it is just too problematic for me to store/transport plus it is awefully long for some of the fishing that I do.

There were some questions regarding the classes that they use for Water Tribe events. I am no expert but they have five classes. 1 - Expedition Kayak/Canoe, 2 - Racing Kayak/Canoe, 3 - Sailing Kayak/Canoe, 4 - mono hull sailboats and 5 - Multi-hull sailboats. My read is that all the regular Mirage Boats without sails fit into class 1. You can have a sail up to one sq meter per paddler and still be in class 1 as long as you dont have amas or centerboards/leeboards. Since the Hobie sail measures 1.88 sq meters, it could be used on a tandem in class one. Using the sail on a single or using the Sidekicks puts you in class 3. Also, the amas used in class 3 must be deflateable so that they can be stored inside the primary kayak hull. This is why the AI and TI fall into class 5.

As for the Water Tribe event, that decision is still out there. I will likely start with the shortest race (67 miles) and see how that goes. If I go solo I would use the Revo with Hobie Sail and Sidekicks (class 3). There is a chance that I will do it Tandem with my Outfitter and sail (no amas - class 1). I know that neither of these boats would be the absolute best but it is certainly doable in both.

I realize that I have been somewhat dismissive of the AI and TI. That is because if I wanted to sail from Tampa to Key Largo, I would do it in my Nimble 25 Arctic which would be infinitely more comfortable. You know, soft bed, beer, bug screens, beer, sink/stove, beer, bathroom, beer, wife in bikini, beer....

Thanks again for all the help.

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Mark N
Outfitter
Revo 13

Really interesting topic and discussion....out of my range for my age and condition, but it did get me thinking. Here's food for thought (re: the 67 mile event).

Here in SoCal they hold a kayak/paddle board race that goes from Avalon Harbor (Catalina Island) to Dana Point (harbor). I've watched the finish a few times, and some folks are doing this in 5-7 hours. It is a 35 mile open ocean event.

So....what about setting up a Revolution to run as light as possible and go almost straight through (unless not allowed by the rules)? Of the two boats, the Revo feels a lot more relaxed and easy to pedal. It has much more stable "feel", which means less energy burned when things get bumpy or you need to shift position. Also....a very important point will be: Which boat has your feet/legs lower compared to your body. You'll tire quicker if the pedals are too high. I'd even consider making shorter pedal arms IF your heels clear, just to reduce the stroke length and improve blood flow in the legs.

Long distance is always compromises....my wife and I have done as much as 12 miles nearly non-stop in Sports (but it took over 4 hours). It requires constant attention to energy conservation, body position alternation, and even pedal stroke changes to reduce joint and friction effects. Of course, we are pretty slow, but perhaps those methods could be adapted to longer events and faster boats.

One very successful "body break" method (to rest the legs and arms) is to take advantage of crosswinds or currents by sitting up straight and canoe-paddling on one side only. I've used this method to rest tired body/legs while getting different movements into the upper body. It has the advantage of very low stress on the shoulders, compared to regular paddling (the hands are much closer to the body, and torso twist is greatly reduced). Experiment with this using a slightly turned rudder, to experience the effect.

You could probably rig paddle/floats to give sleeping stability, but getting horizontal will be really important to actually rest. There are some very light, low, aluminum folding cots that could be rigged (much better than the ground or a hammock). Be sure to carry a "FOR FREE" sign....do like the NASA moon trips and leave weight behind as you go (no need to carry the cot all the way to the finish...they're pretty cheap!)

The "less weight is better" is an approach that might be successful. I sure wish I was 15 years younger and able to get in shape! That sounds like a wonderful experience, and I hope you get to do it!

JimL

Mark from what I read, this can be a very grueling race. It would be prudent to enter at the shorter distance and move to the next checkpoint if you still feel spunky after finishing. It's not a gimmie -- a lot of fit folks don't finish it -- a healthy head wind with local chop can effectively double the distance! The experience you gain will enhance your chance of a successful finish the following year. Not only is weather a great determiner of success, but local knowledge is HUGE in that race; you will gain that with experience.

Here's a post from Kal-P Dal, who is in excellent shape and shows some of his distances and times with the Adventure (pedaling only): viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32518&p=126932#p126932 Most of us would not come close to his times, even in the best conditions, but you can see the relationship between speed and time on the water.

The Adventure requires less effort than the Revo for a given speed, rides smoother and handles rough weather better. The Revo has better access to the hull though the front hatch (for whatever that is worth). Weighed down with gear, your speeds will drop some. The Oasis is slightly slower than the Revo and would require more energy to go the distance.

Some training trips will definitely be in order! Best of luck!

Edit:
Whoops, I didn/t see your Monday post until today (Tuesday), so some of this info is OBE. Sorry about that!

Sorry to say, but I'm not that fit anymore and have some trouble with inflamed heel strings.

@Mark
All my distances and times are done in excellent conditions.
No wind and no waves, very close to land.

Two things not to forget is that either your body or the technics of your kayak can fail. If you are on your own in open sea it could get serious and the fun is not so fun anymore. After my combined 62/75 miles / 24 hours run, I have to go to a doctor with worn out heel strings and some pain in my whole body. No kayak runs for 3 weeks!
I passed the limit for my body.

But if you are going to one of these races, I recomend the shorter to start with, and carefully listen to signals from your body. Bring some spare parts for the Mirage drive.

Good Luck
thomas