Jib Car

Hi Folks,

I am new to the Hobie Forum, and am looking to get my old Hobie 16 in better sailing shape with the help of the folks here. I use my Hobie on Lake Huron (west coast of Ontario, Canada) for recreational fun with the family.

First off - the jib car. I have one's similar to Joshua's - mine are made by Seaway. I have the original Hobie stainless cleats. I have been thinking of replacing this '2 part' system with the one piece "lo-profile jib car" that Marc mentioned above - Part #1075 made by Ronstan (available Fogh Marine, Toronto, $86). I am not interested in having the jib car on a traveller system along the stainless steel track...not at this point anyway.

Does this system work better than the original set-up?
To rig the jib sheet on the Ronstan 1075, do you start by putting a knot behind the metal eye that is above the 2 rollers (my terminology is bad...forgive me), then to the jib clew block (around the pulley) then back to the Ronstan 1075 with the jib sheet going between the 2 rollers down low then up through the cleat above?
One of the forum members mentioned that the jib sheet is easy to cleat in, but difficult to uncleat with this lo-profile jib car/cleat. Do others find this as well?

Thanks, any thoughts would be appreciated.
Alpine.

Hello all,

I am having significant problems releasing the jib sheet with the new low profile cam-cleats. I have tried different sized lines, different flicking techniques etc. As Tim has pointed out the fairlead is angled such that the more strain the sheet is under the more difficult it will be to release. The old swivel spring downward variety would cant under pressure making it easier to release under pressure and undoubtedly led to premature release (please no viagara jokes) If I have to choose between the two it is more important to be able to release quickly. I have developed an aversion to pitch poling.
Tim did you try your fix? Has anyone else had this problem and do you have a fix?

thanks SK

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When the going gets weird the weird turn pro - Hunter S. Thompson

SK,
I tried modifying the lo-profile jib block so the jib sheet would enter the cam cleats a little higher by flipping the plate on top of the roller fairlead over and using a larger eye strap on top of it to feed the jib sheet to the cams. This made it a lot easier to release the jib sheet but more difficult to get it to set in the cams, so for now I have switched it back to the original setup and am practicing flipping up the sheet.

When you have someone out on trapeze, the lo-profile jib blocks actually make it harder for them to release the jib since they don't have the vertical angle to pull it up high enough and can only release it by trying to flip the jib sheet. It sure would be a lot safer if the lo-profile jib block was re-designed to work like the main block so that just pulling on the jib sheet would release it.

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Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

I don't pull up with mine, I just whip the sheet and it releases. Only been out on 3 outings since I replaced it and did not have any problems. I don't miss my old "Seaweed" blocks.

My cam lock on the main sheet is angled low, so I have to whip the main sheet to release it as well.

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Marc...
1978 Hobie 16 Keoke, sail# 36 84

Tim et al.,

I wonder what it is that makes the difference. You may trust me when I say I have tried whipping, snapping, pulling, heaving, shaking as well as calling on every demon and god I can think of. When it is under heavy stress, I can get it out about one time in five if I am lucky and I suspect that may be when the tension has come off because the main has been released. I have just found my old blocks and I think I will put them back on until I can machine an adjustable fairlead for the low profile blocks.

please let me know if anyone comes up with a better idea.

sk

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When the going gets weird the weird turn pro - Hunter S. Thompson

SK & Tim: Could you post pics of your jib cars? There must be something terribly wrong if your low-pros aren't far superior to stock. I have never seen/heard such before, and have been around a lot of boats with this upgrade. Just trying to help.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16

Jerome,

If you look at the photo that Marc (56kz2slow) posted in this post on March 10, 2011 5:21 a.m. for the lo-profile jib block (part 1075), that is how mine looks when it is in it's track.

The jib sheet enters the front of the roller fairlead sometimes almost vertically. You can see from the photo how the cams are angled upward and higher than the roller fairlead. When the jib sheet is very tight you must really yank the jib sheet up high enough to get it to pop out of the cams inorder to adjust it. This is not easy to do from the back of the boat or when out on the wire.

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Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

Two possibilities to consider, Tim....

1. Is there room to tack the jib further down on the bridle chainplate (forestay adjuster)? Common practice is to tack it as low as possible while still being able to get max sheet tension just prior to going block-to-block. Once the tack is set, adjust where the clew is connected to get even tension applied to leech and foot (bottom and top telltales breaking in unison). I'm thinking that moving the entire jib down and slightly forward may help with the extreme (near vertical angle) that the sheet enters the fairlead.

2. Bring that baby over to Juana's on Navarre Beach the weekend after Labor Day and lets figure it out together over a few beers!

http://juanaspagodas.com/RegattaNews.htm

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16

Recently I noticed that a 1978 Hobie 16 had the following "Jib Sheet Car/Block/Traveler".



This looks like it would be a possible better alternative to the "lo-profile jib sheet car with swivel cleat no. 1075" for what I prefer.

What I like about this older style is that the angle of the cams can be adjusted using the pin on top and that you pull down on the jib sheet to release it from the cams (like you do with the main sheet).

Was this older style of jib sheet car/block/traveler a Hobie part and is it still available?

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Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

Tim, I've got several sets of those style cars in the Garage. Send me an email.

_________________
Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

Tim, my '78 had that style and I'm much happier with the low profile blocks.

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Marc...
1978 Hobie 16 Keoke, sail# 36 84

Tim: I could be wrong, but I've sailed and worked on a lot of Hobie 16s of various vintages. I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with your rig if you are considering going back to those horrible jib cars. There's a good reason that J. Eaton has several sets of them in his garage (rather than on a boat).

Try taking some pics for us the next time you rig it. Or contact some of the experienced FWB or PCB fleet people to look it over.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16

I have the old ones just mentioned a post or two above. They work "ok" but even using the pin adjustment you generally have to whip the line down to pop them. Just pulling does NOT release them. When block to block they can be finicky as well, sometimes you have to reach up to the cam and pull down to get them out.

I would take one these guys up on the offer to check out your setup and see if there is something goofy.

Best of luck!

I communicated with Ronstan and Murrays and tried their ideas of how to solve my problem with getting the lo-profile jib cars to release the sheet when under load.

Ronstan recommended taking the black plate off and flipping it over so the cams would line up better with the roller fairlead. This made it very easy to release the sheet when under load, but difficult to cleat the sheet (since the jib cars are just above the tramp and it was hard to get the sheet low enough to cleat it). This was similiar to when I tried feeding the sheet through a larger eye strap above the roller fairlead.

Murrays recommended flattening the black plate which was a happy medium between the original design and when I flipped the black plate over. With the black plate flattened (see second photo) it works really well now and I can cleat and uncleat the sheet a lot easier now that the roller fairlead and cams are aligned better.

I also tried lowering my jib further down the bridle chainplate so the clew plate was lower and further in front of the jib cars. Being a tall person, I didn't like this since it makes it harder to see under the jib as to what's on my leeward side. Since I sail several times a week around the "Pass" which connects St. Andrews Bay, Grand Lagoon and the Gulf, there is quite a lot of power boat traffic and when sailing solo you can't always depend on power boats to give you the right of way (particularly the pontoon and jetski rentals).

These two photos show my jib control setup (with the flattened plate).

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Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

Instead of using a bowline at the cleat, just pass the line through the eyestrap and tie a figure-8 knot. It will allow you to sheet in further.