Turtle

I flipped the 18 Friday night solo on Lake Champlain. I have friends sailing in a P19 near me and I have a Whaler as support boat on land (TG). It was a bit windy, not too bad but I wanted to go fast and try out the new wings I just installed. Trapping off was pretty wild. Friends Ken and Caro went on the P19. What I couldn't handle was the distance from me with the line and the main cleat. (my 17 is much easier) Hard to adjust/unlock. I figured I could leave the jib locked and adjust with tiller and main. I had everything locked since it was rather consistent wind when all of a sudden the wind picked up pretty good. With the hull already lifted, it went to 60 degrees, too late to unlock sheet, so rudders were my only option but pushing the tiller in only pushed in the extension (musta turned). Up to 90 degrees hooked in over the wings and I was what felt like 20 feet up there falling inside toward the boom. No time to unhook and go off the backside. Owch. Turtled in 5 seconds (but I got the main uncleated). Caro jumped off Prindle to help, no go. Ken and I powered in to shore with the prindle, Got the Whaler and we tried all sorts of stuff to get that beast back over, all three pulling, nothing (we did everything by the book). on the back helped get some hull out but not much. Used the boat pulling on the hulls, and finally after an hour of flipping, we got it back on its side. Couldn't get it past that tho even with the boat on its side and pulling with the whaler on the top hull (ac 45 style). Mast was full at that point (it only leaks at the rotator, so I know it wasn't the reason it turtled (but that is my main gripe, done this twice). Getting to sunset. Floating north at a good clip, middle of the 4 mile wide lake. We're all tired now from lots of work. I get back in the whaler (I tied it to the cat and drifted it) and circle around to the mast hoping it didn't turtle again before I got there (they were hanging out for dear life). I got there and lifted with all my might while trying not to run over the mast, sails, etc. steering with one hand lifting with another, throttle with the other. Yeah it sucked bad and I was ready to let the thing go drift to Canada. Got it up to as far as I could lift and it fell back down almost on top of me, then I fell out of the boat which was in gear (slowly). It took 1 second for me to realize I had one shot at it and it was as fast as I've ever swam in a 10 second sprint with my lifey on. made it. It was in a slow turn so I may have had another shot at it, but probably not. The fear of seeing that safety boat leaving pumped the adrenaline up 10x. Needless to say I hopped back on in one fell swoop (up). Tried it again, only this time walked the sail up (it was like a solid wing, holding on to the batten end, pushing up past 30 degrees then finally I could see it was going over. I couldn't maneuver the boat enough while holding the mast to walk it up the mast. Plus if it came down, it would have hit me. Another bigger Whaler showed up (mine's 15') just as it was going back up. He watched us with scope for an hour or so from his house. Nice dude, has a hobie. Caro and Ken cleaned all the ropes and tow lines up sailed it back beating a headwind since we drifted a bit. It was slow since the hulls were filled up. Coast Guard came by but they were already moving and I was on the beach having a Labatts Blue. I have no problem anything but the quick turtle- happened twice so far. I see the dude on youtube talking about his righting pole standing on a hull sideways for 15 min. Mine would not do that. Comp tip is sealed. Only the rotator is not sealed well and wouldn't be in the water on its side. Anyway, another self rescue story like the Thunderbirds. Usually I am rescuing other people so this was good therapy. Cheers.

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H18, H17 & Various motor boats

Bummer, especially at this time of year.

BTW, we tried to race at the LDSC Turkey Trot on Saturday....winds 15 kts, gusting 22, which is fine...however, it was the air temps, which were sitting at 4C, or around 39F. Everyone voted NO, so that's it for racing this year.

Moving up to wings is a whole different ball game. Did the lower wing catch in the water? That will pull you over real quickly as it digs in.

I've always believed that in a puff, do NOT turn into the wind....you will rotate and capsize. I guess your hotstick let you down, and the Hobie automatically turned into the wind.

Did you try standing on the stern part of the hulls? That often brings the mast to a useful position. Or, checking some previous threads, go with noodles on the shrouds until you get used to the wings.

Glad you drink the good stuff....that always helps.

Last sailing will be this Saturday, then we go into hibernation...

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2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

I need a rest after this summer. We had 21 G 35, 6 foot waves Sat. No, the wings didn't have anything to do with it. It wasn't a reach, or anything diving in, more of a close hauled lazy knockdown if you will. It (boat) didn't change directions one bit, hot stick let me down and just tipped over. Once past say, 45 degrees, there's not much rudder for anything anyway. I was testing the limits and should have had another on board. Now the 17 will automatically weathervane into the wind when tipped that much and dump air as well, way harder to get knocked over sideways with the less sail area. All is fun. BTW, I agree with you on the turning down wind esp on a reach/deep reach.

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H18, H17 & Various motor boats

When sailing upwind, you turn the boat into the wind to depower. When sailing downwind, you turn the boat away from the wind to depower.

If you wait until the hull's too high before you begin turning into the wind, you may still end up capsizing, but if you react soon enough, turning the boat into the wind (sailing upwind) should stop you from flipping. Most of the time you can sail your course with minimal or no mainsheet adjustment by simply steering the boat to maintain hull trim.

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I have to say, I've been a bit shocked at how quickly my 18 turtles as well. I had some issues last year and decided it was a leaky mast so I spent some time last fall emptying out the water and getting everything sealed.

Was single-handing a couple months ago and reacted improperly on a beam reach (should have fallen off instead of heading up). Anyway, the boat was stick-down in about 10-15 seconds despite immediately sliding down the tramp and swimming around to get on the lower hull.

Fortunately a buddy showed up and we had it upright in a couple of minutes - mast must have stayed sealed as it came up easily and I haven't heard any water sloshing inside since then.

Spoke to one of the guys in W MI, and he had recently switched from an all-aluminum mast to comp-tip. He believes it made a big difference in mast weight/flotation ability. He also was surprised at how quickly it turtles now.

Starting to wonder if my comp-tip has some foam in it that is saturated but not necessarily sloshing.

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Jeff R
'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
cramsailing.com

Next time, try standing on the bottom of the wing pulling on your righting line. Worked well for correcting my 18 from turtle.

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2010 AHPC C2 #218

We've been turtled so bad that we ended up unhooking a trap line and had an assist boat literally pull the mast up to horizontal.... then we got it from there. It was a leaky mast, but the pulling up the mast with the trap line is what saved us, that mast was like an anchor!

Ive had my 18 for 4 years and have never flipped it. Two close calls but never done it. I hope I never do. I plan on doing it on purpose for practice every summer but the water never gets warm enough for me. I'm no Polar Bear, not even close.

I rarely rarely lock the main sheet when its blowing. One of the close calls was in light wind and the sheet was locked and I was sitting on the wrong side of the boat when the gust hit. I was with my sister, as the hull went up, I slid off the boat and once my weight was off the hull came back down.

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ALLEY CAT 1984 RED LINE HOBIE 18 MAGNUM
Sail # 10505 or 277

Here is the video of the fellow on his side and NOT turtling. I think mine would be turtled in this situation right away, but there is not much wind blowing on his tramp helping it to go over either. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbihZsXESg[/youtube]

I'm going to go thru the comptip and mast one more time, seal the hulls better (leak at the xbars) and test some more. Now that I think about it and look at the video above's angle, any water in the top hull would really be pushing that over.

Trap line idea is great for the serious turtles. I'll check out the wing use too although I think I was on them (worrying they would crack). Getting on the back of the hulls is important as that was the only way we got air under the tramp. But we never got it to roll. I've flipped my old 16 maybe 20 times, so I get it. This boat is tougher so I'll be more careful.

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H18, H17 & Various motor boats

My boat will stay on its side indefinately with a solid mast on it. I have even used the upper dagger as a diving board many times. I sail in salt water which is more bouyant but not that much more. I find the comptip to be a heavy item in comparison to the piece of aluminum cut off. The tip is foam filled, tends to crack at the seam and definately can take on water and hold it. Once the foam gets waterlogged it is very hard to get the water out. I imagine the foam adds to the rigidity of the tip so removing it would compromise the tips strength, but if its waterlogged does it really add any strength? There is no easy access to the inside of the tip either, so no way to check if it is wet. I have seen water come out of mine so I'm sure it leaks but have been unable to find the leak by bubble testing it. No issues with turtleing but it is a pita to raise!

Anybody have a ~30ft. long oven? We could bake it out.

Of course, that would only work until the next rain-storm or capsize allowed more water in. Sealing the comp-tip seems like it would be a real challenge...

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Jeff R
'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
cramsailing.com

Real good point, I forget how "heavy" mine is to raise as well! I need 2 people and I'm betting it's the end weight/moment.

On the lookout for a solid mast now (sort of). And thinking about a comp tip lobotomy (scary, but...)

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H18, H17 & Various motor boats

I have both a comptip mast and an all aluminum mast. I have turtled with the comptip a few times but with the aluminum mast, never. I don't know if it is the shape or the weight of the masts. Someday I will weight both of them, but where the weight is is more important than the overall weight.

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1989 Hobie 18 Worlds Boat, Magnum Wings & Spinnaker
1987 Hobie Holder 20 #273

dale.vanlopik"at"att"dot"net