Losing Confidence

Can you elaborate on "passivated" means?

Rnykster, you just solved your own problem!

If the smaller fins have never given you a problem, that's your solution! Try the ST fins. They use the old rods that have never given you any issues.

You compare your kayaking activities to that of a distance runner and not a sprinter, so consider the Standard fins to be just like regular sneakers, the ST fins to be high performance marathon running shoes, and the ST Turbo fins to be track spikes. Clearly the track spikes are the fastest, but no marathon runner in the world wears track spikes, sure they're lightweight, but they're not built to do the job that a marathon runner needs to do.

You don't see marathon runner's complaining to Nike that they should be making better track spikes so that those runners can wear them for their races. You don't see Nike having to tell users that they can't use track spikes for marathons. Clearly it's up to the user to decide what works for them.

If you decide to roll the dice in one of your next races and use ST Turbo fins, then you'll have to be prepared for the potential of failure. If you don't want a failure, and you already know that the ST fins never give you a problem, and haven't failed even once, then you have the option to run those.

Looking at the fins in this way also clearly eliminates your argument that Hobie doesn't offer you performance pieces in the same way that a bicycle manufacturer does.

Let's face the facts, these boats weren't purpose built for racing. If they were, they'd be about 20% lighter, and have less comfort and convenience features. Your use is an extreme use for these boats, and it sounds like the performance fins (the ST's) have worked perfectly for you.

It's up to the user to understand what works for them. I've been able to use the ST Turbo's for several extended high speed runs without a single failure. Clearly if I entered a race, I'd try to use those fins. You might have another decision to make.

So clearly Matt Miller and the Hobie staff have heard your complaints. As Matt stated, they made changes to their process directly because of this thread. Now it's your turn to accept responsibility for your own use, and go out and enjoy your boat. My advice, give those ST's another shot. They seem perfect for your use. If you're not able to break records with those fins, then you may want to consider another pedal boat, or perhaps you'll have to look at the guy pushing those pedals and accept that maybe you're not the guy to break that record. Hey. We can't all be record holders!

_________________

Rnykster :
Just google passivated metal, it's a pretty common etching/plating process used on stainless steel to prevent it from rusting. Basically they etch away all the carbon on the surface and/or replace with Chromium depending on the exact process used which is probably a propriety process to Hobie. Here are the specs on the 17-4 material ( http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_prod ... _Sheet.pdf).
Looking at most of Hobies hardware on their boats it appears quite a bit of their stainless components are passivated (otherwise we would see more surface rust on any steel components). As always Hobie always takes the extra effort to make things right, as an Engineer that why I admire them so much.
Bob

A process that removes any surface contaminates / carbon from tooling etc. that might rust and cause pitting in the stainless.

http://www.iftworldwide.com/white_paper/passivation.pdf

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Matt,

Thanks for the clarification on the make of the masts. Nice to know they are quality pieces from a U.S. manufacturer. I know from personal experience that most high end U.S. made goods exhibit better QC than many (though not all) Oriental made products of similar nature.

I should also add that we did not previously passivate the masts because they did not exhibit a rust or discoloration of any concern to us.

Typically pasivation is used as a cosmetic process to reduce the surface rust or bleed from looking poor or bleeding onto other parts of a boat. The rust stains on stainless are not typically a structural concern. The rust shown on these Turbo masts seems to be localized at the base of the fin. I wonder about local water conditions being a factor. High iron or brackish water that is trapped inside the fins and against the masts?

The engineers asked for passivation on these parts now out of an abundance of caution.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

So, Matt, at what point can one buying a turbo kit from a retailer expect to receive one with passivated masts? Are the untreated units in the channel being replaced, or is there some way for a concerned individual to ensure receipt of treated parts? Can they be differentiated once received?

Got to keep moving forward!

There is nothing wrong with the product that is in the distribution channel. We have been making masts without passivation since the inception of the MirageDrive. We are simply making a minor change to address a possible issue (unproven) that appeared in the set shown in this thread. It would be many months until anything new reaches dealers. Not sure you could tell the difference.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

You're so right augaug. I'm sure Hobie is tired of my ranting. I'll take the Hobie boat link off my web page now and will start looking at other options including my own redesign of in inferior parts and local fabrication. Thanks for pointing out how wrong I have been for assuming that because Hobie came out with larger fins that they were encouraging us to go faster. My mistake. I'm out of here much to your satisfaction!

Clearly, you know it all auguag. Bye.

There could be only one record holder!

If it is gonna be a Hobie kayak is the question.

In Sweden there are not so many Hobie kayaks and the majority of these are bought by fishing people.
I use my Adventure as a long tourer and I am tired to meet other kayakers who thinks Hobie kayaks are just toys, comparable to pedalboats for tourists (very slow).

There is a real value for the brand Hobie to participate in racing and I think they do, with their sailing boats.

More Hobie kayak buyers in Sweden = Better support from Swedish Hobie dealer for Hobie kayak owners in Sweden.

I think Hobie needs some real racing experience too, because that is the best test of materials that they can get.

BR thomas