Drive Failure at Sea

[Note:I had previously posted this on KFS. Some minor changes below]

Happened to me today.

Two and half miles out just into the days run.

The fin mast came out because the set screw was lose! No way to get it to hold away from the workbench.

Why did this happen?

How come no maintenace instructions to tighten these buggers regularly! I recommend at least every 100 hours, if not 50.

Can you use locktite to make sure it doesn't happen again? Is there is a potential chemical reaction between the loctite and plastic sprocket that could bugger up the threads? Can you still back the set screw out once loctite has been used?

I managed to use a 7/64 allen wrench to tighten it up when home. But I'm not sure that's the right size.

How easy is it to strip the threads in the sprocket if you over tighten?

Am I stuck with this screw tightening system for the turbo drive?

The set screw part is, according to the catalog 53170020. What if it had fallen out? Even if I now carry an Allen wrench it looks like I better carry a spare set screw.

There is no visible crack I can see in the sprocket. From past experience in other fields that doesn't mean there isn't something you can't see. So I'm probably going to have to replace the sprocket. The drive is only 5 and 1/2 months old. Believe that should be covered under warranty. Is that correct?

Sign me \

No aloha today Hobie. I'm too old for such happenings.

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My earlier comments about Locktite were incorrect. The company does NOT recommend using Locktite "Blue" with plastic. Apparently it can form a chemical reaction with the plastic and crack it.

It should be used for metal to metal contact only. Still OK for marine use.

It sure is a bummer having to paddle isn't it? Sorry about that, but at least there is a backup system.

Not much chance that the set screw would actually fall out. Once the mast stops wiggling against the screw, there wouldn't be any reason for it to move more.

We don't have a recorded history of set screws backing out, so no way to recommend a service interval on it. Maintenence is a very broad issue. We note in the manual to check loose cables, screws etc periodically. I would suggest checking often when used such as you do. I would consider you a HEAVY user.

If the sprocket is failed it would be covered under warranty.

The allen wrench is a 1/8".

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks Matt

A 1/8" allen wrench into the kit bag.

Roadrunner. Thanks for checking. wonder if superglue might be OK.

Wonder if you could then back it out.

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Dan, don't do anything too permanent. When your new Turbos come, you'll need to change out those masts!

This is in reference to Aloha Dan's (and others) recent posts about problems with the plastic supports for the mast in the newer Mirage Drives, both here and over on KFS. Turns out that I too have noticed what has seemed to me to be a reduction in quality of parts and construction of the Mirage Drives over just the past 1-2 years. I first noticed what seemed to be a reduction in weight of the Mirage drive between Jan., 2004 when I purchased my Outback new and July, 2005 when I purchased a new Sport for my wife. Upon closer examination of both Mirage Drives, it became clear that stainless steel parts (including the sprocket and teeth that the chain rides on) on the bearing surfaces of my 2004 OB drive had been replaced with plastic on the 2005 Sport drive! Here are a few pics for comparison so you can see what I am talking about.

1. Here is a pic of both drives, with the 2004 drive to the left and the 2005 drive at the right, fins up, forward part of drive (Pitot tube speedometer holder) to the left.



2. If you zoom in on the 2004 drive on the left above, you will note the stainless steel holders for the masts. Note also that the leading edge of each mast is secured by a SS cotter pin -no way the mast can become separated from the drive (unless the cotter pin breaks!) since the cotter pin goes all the way thru both the holder and the mast itself. No use of set screws anywhere here that are embedded in plastic (that can break or become stripped) to hold the mast tight.



3. Here is the 2005-2006 arrangement in which the former SS mast holders have been replaced by plastic, as has the steel sprocket beneath the new sprocket guards. So what we have now are plastic sprocket teeth (like the sprocket teeth on a bicycle pedal assembly) driving the steel chain that operates the fins on the Mirage Drive.



4. Here is the opposite side of the 2005 drive (rear of drive to the left, fins up) showing how the after part of the fins is secured by SS pins that are held in place with a split ring-same as for the 2004 drive. This seems to be a simple, yet functional way to do this. The problem is in the forward attachment of the fins that are now using plastic, instead of stainless steel, in the newer drives.



SUMMARY
So what is the bottom line to all this? Very simple. The problem that Aloha Dan and others have reported could be solved by replacing the newer plastic mast receptacles and returning to perhaps the older design using stainless steel mast holders that will hold the masts (and fins) to the drive more securely, IMHO. So far, I don't believe anyone has reported losing plastic sprocket teeth from the new drives, but as more folks convert over to the new Turbo fins, with the increased stress and strain on the steel chain and plastic sprocket teeth, I am afraid that we are going to be seeing problems here, as well. I should say that I'm a biologist, not an engineer, but I do tend to look at mechanical devices from a bioengineering point of view on occasion. Just my $.03 worth.

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I just called Hobie and was told they are no longer available (not made) so the solution is a mute one at this time unless you know of someone that has the old set. Apalach how much are yours going for??? Or should I say$$$

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See ya on the water,
OffRoad

Yep, OR--Yakaholic over on KFS had noted a "NLA" designation next to the metal sprocket in the parts list. He figured this to mean "No Longer Available," and it looks like he was right on! Bummer--I would much prefer sticking to steel parts myself, and now we can't even get our drives back to "original issue" condition. However, I predict that may change should a lot of folks begin to have problems with the new plastic sprockets interacting with the steel chain. Of course, some wise arse may decide, hey, we can introduce a plastic CHAIN as well, to go with the new plastic sprockets! Don't get me started... Mebbe we need to start looking for a used Mirage drive on e-bay as a future parts source??

But, the bottom line is that I think we gotta trust Hobie to do the right thing--if something does not work as expected or planned, I believe we can rely on their good judgement, engineering expertise, and experience as how best to solve the problem, even if this means a possible retro-fitting (or not!).

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Check this out.

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 6831063232

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StocktonDon - fishing, diving, sailing, and wondering what's just around the next point. (A pen name for quasi-fictional-hopefully-amusing stuff by dwest.)

Here is what I think I would put into a spare parts kit:

Fin/Sail (1) 81190001
Mast (1) 81160001
Sprocket (1) 81128001
Set Screw (1) 53170020
Allen Wrench 1/8" (1) 8034061
Cotter Key (1) (Older) 8060111
Chain Assy. (1) 81201
Clevis Pin (1) (Older / Longer) 8020061
Ring (1) 10860001
Zippered Parts/Tool Bag (1) 72000B

I will set up a kit in our system. The price for the parts is $104.65 purchased separately. I will price at $95.00


Suggested additional tools you should carry

Phillips head screw driver
Adjustable end wrench

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I too have had a failure of the sproket on a brand new drive unit and my dealer is telling me Hobie may not cover this under warranty as they claim it was due to a collision, which it was not. This failed on the first time I used this drive (Outfitter has 2). I sent my dealer Hi res pictures of the drive showing it in brand new condition so why the problem. Maybe the warranty is only good in the US not Canada.If Hobie will not cover this I will be very disapointed with this company.

Hey GC,
Welcome to the Hobie Forum, and sorry to hear about your sprocket failure. I find it hard to believe that Hobie won't cover such a mishap, especially on a new drive. Check in with Matt Miller here--he is the expert Hobie troubleshooter and should be able to advise you as to the solution to your problem. Here are a couple of links with some info as to the sprocket problem from others.

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 7801042232

Especially check out Punchinello's illustrated guide to repairing this in the same thread:

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 042232/p/2

Best,
Dick

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Sorry to hear about your troubles AlohaDan. For new Mirage Owners, let me stress again, if you are going to do any distance at all, carry a complete spare drive unit. My drive unit has broken way too often to be able to trust them any more.

Sprocket failure without any impact and certainly on a new drive would be covered by the warranty "World Wide". The dealer may have assumed...and you know what that does.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Aloha Dan

I just wanted to mark this topic so I'll put in a nothing reply. Except yesterday I did my first "hulie" off the coast. I hadn't practiced any rescue, I hadn't seen that wonderful sit-on-top kayaking vid, and of course paddle floats were for sissies> I got a Hobie. Yeah...WRONG. Safety sling?? Wuzupwitdat?

I had a tough time uprighting the Outback and had to get a nearby yakker to assist. BTW, anything hung from a lanyard about the neck may make sliding back into an uprighted yak much more difficult.

The reason I zoomed in on your post here is that my right pedal began slipping to the right 1.5 to 2.0 inches every time I pedalled. The end cover cap had come loose, the nut holding the pedal on had come totally off and dropped into the drivewell, and the underneath washer was loose but retrievable.

Bottom line: If your pedals are secured this way, you will need long needlenose pliers to retrieve the nut, a 7/16" nut driver to tighten the nut back on and I had to do the tightening on the bench so I limped back to the Harbor. Routine maintenance at least seasonally is to pop those caps off and retighten them( the opposite pedal was not loose).