Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11

I have the same problem here in Australia, I have an oasis and would like to buy a Revo, but the dealers are not interested.If I wanted to buy a drive, they are quoting over 1000 dollars,but would not even give 400 dollars discount for a bare Revo. Seems silly to me .

Arrogance is more appropriate. Your situation is even worse than ours in America.

When we own an Oasis like you and I do, the arrogance is a double whammy, since we own two Mirages, paddles, seats, cassettes, water bottles.

Hobie would/could have a large increase in Mirage yak sales if they offered a hull only certificate for the original purchasers for their single Mirage yaks to buy a hull only and two hulls only certificates for those who purchase tandem Mirage yaks. Then, allow their dealers to trade off the extras or to order a hull only Mirage yak to meet the demand. We are not talking about rocket science or breaking the laws of nature, here re packing/shipping hull only Mirage yaks.

Besides, I get the feeling that a large % of Dealers might prefer to sell hull only yaks in the plastic wrap rather than dealing with unpackaging and making basic adjustments to the rudders when you read the large numbers of posts/replies re the rudders on new Mirage Yaks not working right.

All of which might explain the low market penetration by Mirage Yaks in my county. I know of only 7 Mirage yaks. One couple bought two Outbacks because my wife and I recommended the Mirages to them, and they got their in-laws to buy an Outback and Revolution. Another lady owns an Outback and Revo which she bought out of state in the previous decade.

7 Mirage Yaks in my county with above average incomes, a river, two lakes, access to the Bay and a one hour drive to Bodega Bay and other coastal yakking areas with well over 50 Launching sites within an hour's drive indicates a potential marketing/distribution problem. We see a lot of Yaks, and usually we are the only ones in a Mirage Yak.

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2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder

Again... we do offer the hull only option. Not sure why this thread persists.

You can not compare the price at retail of a drive, paddle and seat to what would be an appropriate discount when removed from the boat package. They are not the same value when purchased as a package. If a dealer were to fully credit the parts... he would be selling the hull at too low a price... and have to hope he can sell the removed parts in a reasonable amount of time.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Spey,
Sorry your dealers where less than willing to work with you...I have had no problems walking in and getting "hull only" boats from my local Hobie dealers here in so.cal (FASTLANE SAILING & KAYAKS-- or --OEX/SUNSET BEACH), but I think it probably has alot to do with how much volume the dealer does.

I bet if you tried your local shop again, they would have a change of heart. Hobie is by far one of the best customer service orientated companies out there, I say give them another shot before selling your soul to the devil (going electric).

As I understand it, Hobie does NOT offer a hull only option. What they do is sell a complete boat to the dealer and then allow the dealer to keep all the parts and sell the hull separately if they are willing to. That is very much not the same thing as it puts the onus on the dealer to own those "spare parts", and to set the price as they see fit. It also means that if a dealer sells one or two "hull only" configurations, they might feel like they are now stocking too many mirage drives and Hobie paddles. I know the current Hobie paddle is improved from what it was a couple years ago, but I can't believe there's a lot of non-warranty demand for them.

Additionally, I would assume that Hobie is marking up the hull and parts equally. The dealer will lose out if he discounts the hull by more than the dealer cost of the parts that are kept. Otherwise, the dealer is getting screwed on the effective cost of the parts to the dealership. As a result, the amount of profit as a percentage of cost for the hull only option is probably a bit higher and the buyer feels like they are being taken advantage of. This is, of course, conjecture, but based upon the comments of people who have tried to go through this process.

Now, if I'm mistaken and there is a "hull only" part that can be ordered from Hobie with a reasonable set cost and list price that doesn't stick the dealer with the parts, then I apologize.

-bob

has it got to be a revo?
I see hobies for sale without the drives all the time on Craig's list. And save the "I am old and don't want to be crime statistic" BS.
Take a big ugly friend and meet in the Wal-mart Parking lot where they all have video cameras and even the criminals know it... if you don't have a big ugly friend you can take my wife

Your post is interesting in two ways:

1. A friend suggested having having your dealer ship a hull only, and I could pick up the frieght bill.

2. The same friend said that with so many businesses shutting their doors in N California, I might be able get a good deal when N California Hobie dealers have a going out of business sale because they haven't worked with their local customers.

We are seeing an interesting trend here in wino country. Before the economic meltdown hit, many of our merchants catered to the wealthy out of towners or out of countryers and the locals could go to you know where. Many of those business have disappeared while those with good relations with locals are keeping open and some are doing well.

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2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder

Too poorly paraphrase a famous movie line, "I think we have a communication problem here!"

Hobie may have a hull only policy, but how many dealers understand or know this.

Austin Kayak is a big dealer and a good place to buy yaks and aftermarket items.

I can't imagine Austin not selling hull only Mirage Yaks with their volume if they felt that they could do it without legal problems from Hobie. I would order another Mirage Yak from them if they sold Hull Only Mirage Yaks at a fair price for them and for us. Every owner with a Mirage Yak would be a potential customer for Austin if they carried hull only Mirages and posted the prices on their site.

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2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder

You understand that I work at the factory right?

Yes, we do have the hull only option. That is what I said.

We credit the dealer for the drive, paddle and seat when removed from the package here before shipping. It is not on our price list... it is not a great deal for the dealer. It is something we offer, but do not stock that way. The issue doesn't come up that often. We have far to many SKUs to add hull only for every color and model, so this is how it is done.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Grampa Spey:
If at all possible I recommend working with your local dealer, where you will get the proper after sale support. We have all read the horror stories of people trying to get a special deal or avoid sales tax having problems. Put yourself in the shoes of the local dealer who you bring the messed up boat to, when he knows you bought it somewhere else to avoid him (they are all small locally owned business's whose livelyhood depends on us). I totally disagree with your conclusions about a market for hull only Hobies.

Here is another possible option, of course you would need to get approval from Hobie for this, but what about asking your local dealer to order for a replacement hull from Hobie Factory (if allowed). I know a couple AI owners whose boats were out of warranty and the hulls went bad, they were able to purchase a replacement hull at a reasonable price (plus shipping) through their local dealer (of course you actually need to be nice and work with them, vs demanding this and that, or touting this is crazy I can get a better deal from brand x). Of course there will be some work involved to refit or replace some parts (depending on what is missing), of course you don't want to strip parts from your Oasis like hatch covers, paddles, seats, and such.

I suspect Hobie as a manufacturer works similar to other companies where the pristine boats are sold as new, but they also produce maybe 1 in 50 or so what we would call factory seconds. There might be a slight warp to the hull or a slug of thicker plastic somewhere in the hull (my TI replacement hull had both), or a lifted decal, or visual only blemish on the outside. I would expect that these hulls (factory seconds) are the ones that are sent out as the warranty replacement hulls. I assume there is a very limited supply available because Hobiecat company has one of the best manufacturing systems I have seen, but I know first hand that molding is a very difficult process.
Most other companies get rid of their seconds through companies like Walmart and outlet stores (like La Creuset cookware, and most clothing companies), or heavy discounts. This only applies to the hulls, since Hobie produces these themselves in house, all the component parts I'm sure have incoming inspection and it's the responsability of the suppliers to eat the defective components before Hobies gets them. So anything already attached to the 'factory second' hull like hatch covers, rudders, etc will always be correct, and you will pay full price for those items because they are already part of the assembly by the time the hull is inspected and determined to be a first, second, or junk and recycled and destroyed. HobieCat Co is a stickler over their quality (rightfully so ,they are the best out there), and would never allow seconds out into the market to be sold, and I would bet any second hulls not used for warranty replacement will be destroyed and recycled.

This is all total speculation on my part I have no affiation with Hobiecat Company. My day job used to be the Director of Engineering for a huge multi-national contract manufacturing company (20 times bigger than Hobie), and it was my job to figure all that kind of stuff out. I still work for the same company but mostly just inventing new stuff and consulting these days (semi-retired), and enjoying sailing my Hobie a few times a week out of the front lines.

I still contend this is alot of hubub about nothing, The differnce in price between Hobies and their competition is basically the cost of the Mirage unit ( I personally would not own a boat without a Mirage). I suggested previously that you just advertise and sell one of your Mirage drives from your Oasis on this forum (in the for sale section) or craigs list if you prefer, anything Hobie typically sells in a day (huge demand). Then just buy the dang boat you really want and use the new mirage on both. Who cares about the paddle and seat, in the scheme of things, they are minor. Also when it comes time to sell the revo, your not going to get anything for it without a seat, paddle, and Mirage drive. My opinion is you are cutting off your nose despite your face buying a Hobie without the Mirage unit. Your other option is to get a substantial discount on another brand who actively sells their twisted or leaking factory seconds to un-suspecting saps like us trying to get a great deal at half off (hopefully you haven't fallen for that one already (oldest trick in the book)) Just don't leave it in the sun, or in the water too long ( LOL).

Let me explain another point about large multi-national retail conglomerates (not mentioning any names), this would be a typical conversation between one of their buyers and a manufacturer. We would like to start selling Kayaks and want to buy lets say 10,000 kayaks at a certain price, the manufacturer comes back and says we cannot produce at this price because our material costs are $3.00 per lb for this special UV protected plastic that will last for ten years in the sun. The global buyer comes back and says we don't need no stinking UV protection, as long as it looks good use this material for $1.00 per pound. The retail buyer says we have a global purchase contract on this kind of plastic we use in toys, just use that or we will put you out of business. The manufacturer says ok. All of America is happy they got a great deal (end of America and our values).


Personally I feel Hobies current policies are correct, Why buy a Hobie at all if you don't want the Mirage drive, just get a used 2-3 yr old Wilderness or Ocean for $50 bucks or free (there is almost one in every yard down here collecting dust, sun bleached, faded, and brittle) but no used Hobies ( I wonder why...)
Bob

I know who you are, Matt. The prior discussions I have seen on this were less clear and gave the impression that the dealer, with factory blessing, was selling hulls and keeping all the parts to sell as spares. If you're making the hull only available, then why is it that customers report that some dealers don't think it is an option? Do they really not know? Do they know and believe it's a bad deal or hassle for them, so they make pretend it can't be done? It seems like any dealer on the planet, with that knowledge, would quote the interested customer a price to cover cost, shipping, and reasonable profit and let the customer decide. A dealer that wouldn't isn't representing Hobie's interests, and probably isn't doing a great job of representing the dealership's interests either.

There is little doubt that Hobie does sell hulls only -- it's been confirmed now three times. It also appears pretty clear that Hobie discourages it because for reasons stated, It does not benefit the Company, the dealer, nor is it economical for the customer; it is mostly an accommodation for certain people who live in the whine country.
It has also been stated at the beginning that a Hobie dealer has already offered to sell a hull only option which was rejected by GS. So after having ignored all the knowledgeable opinions, excellent advice and helpful suggestions offered here, he's apparently buying something entirely different to spite Hobie's "arrogance". That's his right and I wish him well.

All this being entirely clear and plainly said, I have to agree with Matt -- this topic is long in the tooth!

Roadrunner:
no kidding, I'm pretty over this myself, apparently you can only reason with people so much before logic and practical solutions go out the window, all of us tried to help the guy.

I did like Matts quote though
" You understand that I work at the factory right? "

Bob

WEll maybe you are over it, and done reasoning, but I still can't buy a revo in Australia without the drive, and no I don't want to keep it as a spare ,or sell one.

where in Aus are you? email -> [email protected]

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Steve Fields
Hobie Cat Australasia
Huskisson NSW Australia
http://www.hobiecat.com.au