mast rakin question

If I'm trying to get the boat rigged for racing, is it better to have the mast more perpindicular to the water (meaning a very tight jib and mast is more towards the bow of the boat, towars forestay), or is it better to have it lean back more, towards the rear of the boat?

What's the benefit and loss of each method?

Im no expert but from what I hear having the mast rake aft (to the rear) gives u higher pointing ability, and less chance of pitch pole.

Johnny,
You need to hook up with your local fleet. There is always someone that will help you rigg for local conditions. The mast rake will be back, but how far and how loose or tight depends on conditions (water and wind) and crew weight. Where are you from?

I'm from houston. I am hooking up with them I guess this weekend lol, they're sponsoring a race (wayward winds) this weekend at the dike and I plan to race in it for fun, which is why I asked

Get there early, introduce yourself, start asking questions and let us know how it goes.

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

Guys, You can't just rake back your mast without considering your sail.
An older boat with a older cut sail that has been stretched can't be rigged like a new boat and sail.
You want to rig the boat so that you have some good pressure on the sheets when you are just about two blocked on the beach.
The sail will dictate how much rake that will be.
If you can easily two block on the beach and the boom is basically laying on the back cross bar and the leach of the sail is loose you will not be able to point and won't go to weather very well.
You also have to remember as you rake back you are depowering the boat.
A old boat may only be able to carry say 15" of mast rake while a new one can run as much as 24". Average seems to be around 18".

It takes a lot of practice to sail a raked back flat sail.

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Pat Bisesi
Fleet 204 Syracuse, NY

Wondering how is the best way to measure how much rake you have....when you mention most people have rake of 18".......l am new to sport and have raked my mast back on my 79 Hobie and just looking from the beach it looks like it is raked back about 3 feet ( eye balling it from base to top with boat sitting level )

pbisesi when you say that there are different cut sails, by how much is the sail shape changed over the years? If Hobie switched to a new sail cut would that not be a disadvantage to the people with older sails? Is it similiar to the mid 80's hulls being lighter, in that a sail from a certain year if preserved would have an advantage?

Measuring mast rake:

Boat sitting level on the beach, sails up but not sheeted in. Take the main halyard out to the windward bow so that it stretches from the top of the mast to the top of the bridle bolt and mark/hold that location with your thumb. Walk to the back of the boat and pull the halyard taut against the transom. The amount of halyard that extends below the transom to your mark is the measurement. The black ticks on the Comptip halyard are approximately 1" apart. Just count the ticks.

Changes in sail shape:
The cut of the Hobie 16 main has not changed significantly in over 20 years, when it was recut slightly to accomodate the flexibility of the Comptip. Even then, the change was minor. The jib, on the other hand, has had several recuts, most recently in 2000 when the foot was shortened a couple of inches and the removed area added to the luff. The overall area remained the same. The cut was done to accomodate more mast rake.

Old Sails vs. New Sails:
Dacron sails will stretch out over the course of their life. In addition, the resin that is used to coat the cloth breaks down and reduces the efficiency of the sail. (That's why new sails are "stiff" and well used sails are "soft".)

The competitive racing lifetime of jibs is about 2 - 3 years (assuming about 10 events / year). Mains last longer, but are generally non-competitive after 5 or 6 years of decent use. That doesn't mean you can't race with them, just don't expect to clean up in A-fleet with them.