1988 Hobie 21SE

Hi,I'me a new to me Hobie cat owner.
I have sailed mono hulls on and off for 40 years,also done more than my share of wood and fiberglass repair.
Thought I would try a catamaran for a change.

Here is what i bought for 500.00;
1988 Hobie 21SE hull number 110.
The name is Passing Wind,haha.
The boat is in good condition for being stored outside with no tarp for 5 years.
The hull has 3 small semi punctures (not all the way through),plus normal scratches and dings for 19 year old boat.
Mainsail, good.
Jib, pretty tired.
Genoa, pretty good.
Spinaker. pretty good,no spinaker pole.
Trampoline needs replacing,to be expected.
Mast seems in good condition,has the comp tip,wire rigging looks good,most sheets and ropes will need to be replaced.
Rudders and dagger boards are okay,some tip damage,very fixable.
Wing seats nead new covers.
Trailer looks ugly,but with some fresh grease in the bearings,it made the 150 mile trip home at 60mph with no problem.

Biggest Problems;
The wing seat sockets; there is an extra access opening on the port hull just behind the rear wing socket,given the cracks in the gell coat around the socket,and sighting down with a mirror,work has been done to that socket.By the looks of it,the work was not done very well or has deteriorated over the years.
The starboard rear wing socket has the same cracking in the gell coat around it,and when I look in with a mirror the socket tube looks damaged.
I can not see the forward sockets internally with a mirror,but there ara no stress cracks in the gell coat around those.
Question; How necessary are the wing seats for sailing?
Do I open up the port access hole and create a starboard access hole and fix the tubes?
Or do I plug the sockets and forget about the wing seats and get on with sailing?

If anyone has a similar boat,could you tell me what they are like to sail,what can I expect once I get it on the water.

Sorry for being so long winded.
Thanks in advance for any help or advice you can offer.

Hey Paul,
Welcome to the club! You are going to love this boat, if you like going really quick.
Just acouple of comments;
my 21SE (Hull #100) has had cracks around the wing sockets since I bought the boat 8 years ago, Not a problem. I did pay attention to filling the cracks both outside and inside the sockets to minimze water infiltration to the inner layers of the hull layup.
The wings are a BIG part of enjoying the boat.
Adding bigger access ports is very common. I added bomar hatches big enough to fit small coolers through the hulls, no problem there either.
The spin is designed to be flown without a pole and will work nicely using a continuous line out to and back from the forward bridle brackets on the tips of the bows. You could add a pole if you like, it would add to performance, but I'm just a pleasure sailor.
You should get the luff track update aluminum extrusion for the masthead to prevent the main from coming out of the track. I have the part but have not done the work yet.
Other stuff I've done;
Forward tramp, ala 21SC,
Cheata outboard motor bracket and 2 hp Honda 4 stroke
Shroud extenders
And a bunch of small stuff.
Good luck with the boat.

What a fun boat. yes the wings are great on that boat, traping out there is one of the best rides around.
Try sailing it and see if you have any leaks around the wing sockets before you put too much time into the sockets. Its a wear and tear area and they dont always look that great. Im sure there are some links to repairing the sockets if nesessary.
Enjoy the boat those are a blast.

Mike

Hi guy's,thanks for the nice welcome and the encouragement/advice.
Between work,kids,grandkids and wife,time has been very limited,so computer's and the internet had to take a back seat.
Anyway here's an update on the boat and a few more questions.

Given the depth of assorted scratches and dings,plus how thin the gel coat is on the bottom of the hulls due to beach landings,I've decided to paint the hulls.
In order to do this I dismantled it to fit it in the garage.
Started on the starboard hull,removed all hardware and
centerboard,power washed,wiped down with laquer thinner,and sanded
and filled.Using epoxy with micro ballons for filling.

A problem I had with the centerboard was,when the board is pulled all the way up,the edge that meets the underside of the deck hits the bolts that hold the keyhole plate in place.
The result has been that the fiberglass/foam core has been bashed to hell for about 3 inches under the plate,about 2 inches into the board.
I cut out the damaged area,glued in a piece of pine the same thickness as the foam core and shaped to fit.Bevelled the fiberglass back about 1 inch from the edge and put in two layers of mat.Filled and sanded with poxy/micro balloons.Will paint with the hulls.

Rudders;the tips have been epoxied and filled and sanded,are ready for paint.

Wing seat tubes;after a thorough inspection (mirrors and mini cameras),I determined that the rear tubes on both hulls have serious cracks and splitting,the front tubes have some cracks,and all of them leak into the hulls.Did some searching in the forums and decided to follow Beachboy's method of repairing them,useing hose clamps and fiberglass.I have ordered new deckplates from catsailor.com.Just waiting for them to be delivered.

I plan to use Interlux Brightside paint and Prokote primer to paint the hulls.Probably white.The non-skid surface is really stained, even after useing fiberglass cleaners and a powerwasher.So I wil paint it,but try to keep the paint as thin as possible.

A couple of questions;
Do you regularly trailer your H21?
If so,how long does it take to raise the mast and rig the boat?
How do you go about it? Whats your system?
The H21 assembly manual gives a basic idea of how to rig the boat,but does'nt mention things like the mast rotater?
Does anyone have any photos of the rigging?
The assembly manual mentions a video on how to setup an H21,has anybody got a copy that I could borrow/buy?
Do you use a Hobie bob on your mast?
How dificult is it to right a H21?

Apologies for being so long winded,and thanks in advance for any info.

I only trailer Mola (#100) twice a year then leave her on the trailer mast up at the marina and ramp launch (dry sailed)
We keep a lot of cruising gear on the boat but between expanding the hulls on my self made trailer and stepping the mast and all it probably takes and hour and a quarter from trailer to water. But then someone always comes by and I end up chatting it up with them.
I also have rigged a forward tramp and continuous line accross the bows for the spinn tack control and it takes a while to set up.
I use an easy step,(Murray's) But it was never designed for the big 32' mast and it bent once so I reinforced it by sistering on some extra aluminum u channel with rivets. It's been fine since. It creates a truss and you use the trailer winch to haul up the mast. Be sure to get one with the auto brake for this. The trap lines are used to keep the mast from swinging sideways.
Mast rotator I rig with a clam cleat on the boom and a four to one micro block line setup with a quick release on the rotator so I can quickly release the boom.
I recommend the improved gooseneck that Murrays sells.
I don't have nor have ever seen a video.
The manual also does not show how to rig a spinn. I asked on this forum and got a lot of help and finally figured it out. I run mine for cruising only and don't like carrying a pole so I fly it without a pole and use a snuffer, works great.
No Bob on masyhead, too wierd for me.
To right a 21SE you almost must have shroud extenders, not the adjusters with an inch or two of travel but extenders that have a quick release and aloow you to extend the shrouds by about 10 inches. When you capsize the skyward hull is over center and actually pushes down on the mast, trying to turtle it. When you release the extenders it allows the skyward hull to flop over center and it now has gravity pulling the weight of that hull the way you want with the mast going up.
All that said I'e never capsized my 21 in deep water. Only static capsizes at 2 foot depth to get to the masthead. The extenders made it very easy with two people.
You will most likely have problems with the centerboards. If you beach the boat sand tends to jam up the boards, real PIA to get them loose and they end up getting grooves cut in them. I never beach the boat but anchor it in two feet of water.
You will need some good abrasion resistant line for the boards, the cleats tend to shred ordinary line, I use dyneema 12 I think.
The springs tend to go south too. The boards will not go all the way down if you have bad springs. Replacing them isn't too bad but you need to learn the technique, it's on this site, works great. Storing the boat with the boards down as far as possible lets the springs relax and they will last much longer. Over winter I put the boat up on blocks so I can let the boards all the way down for the winter. If you do replace the springs find a good Hobie Dealer who knows how to get the Stainless springs, don't bother with plain steel springs, they'll only last a year or so.

I had a 21 long ago. Trailering was a big ordeal, but easier with a friend. to spread the hulls/expand the beams, I pushed on hull at the transom with my hands, the other with my feet and had the friend peg it when the holes lined up. Then I moved to the bow and repeated the process. Tightnen the tramp and stepped the mast. I never had a gin pole of any kind, I just used the winch. I stepped the mast, and a winch was used to assist by pulling on the forestay. The friend would lift the mast to about my waist and then run around and start cranking. This process grew old quick, so I joined a yacht club to keep the mast up and use the hoist to place the boat in the water. It's a really heavy boat to pull up a steep beach with cat wheels even with a lot of help.

As far as righting the boat, I made a spinnaker pole that pivoted to 90 degrees and used it as a spinnaker/righting pole. I was able to right the boat without a shroud lengthener by myself. In addition to swinging the pole to oppose the mast, you also have to raise it off the water a bit as you hit the water and loose leverage. I used a spectra bridle with cleats on the crossbar. This was all before the launch/retrieve systems were part of the pole so there was less stuff to get in the way. I also added nonskid on the pole to make it easier to hold on.

Just a quick word of caution about using the shroud adjusters. I know I have limited experience with my H21SC, but loosenng my adjusters resulted in my mast popping out of its base and holing my hull. Some may say I did something wrong, but I think not.

In addition, I just bought a sail from another owner of a H21SC who told me his horror story about using the extenders. Seems he capsized in deep water, loosened his extenders, and the boat turtled on him even though he had a Hobie Bob on his mast.

Neither one of these experiences are supposed to happen, but they did. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck

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TC

On the old shroud extenders there as a safety wire that connected to the mast, went under the crossbar, and back to the mast. It was loose enough to allow rotation, but snug enough to keep the mast from bouncing off the base. Some omitted this part as it was one more rigging step, but it is critical. The mast pin will help to keep the mast on the ball, but with leverage, this is not a true failsafe. The safety wire is even more critical on the old H-16 where there is no keeper pin. If the mast comes off the ball, you are correct, very bad things happen. Once the shroud is loose, it is time to get things moving towards righting the boat quickly. The pressure of weight trying to right the boat will place enough tension on the shroud to keep the mast in place in most conditions, but with wind, waves, current, and a bouncing boat with a loose rig is just accident waiting to happen, especially if you don't have the correct safety gear in place.

I wish I had that safety wire option on mine. I've been dreaming of different ways to create one, but haven't come up with it yet. I don't know how practical it'd be for me to loop around the cross bar. I'd have to grommet the tramp (no big deal there) but may have issues with the cabin. I need to take a look and see.

How were the safety wires secured to the mast? I've thought about riviting tangs to the mast, but fear what would happen to the mast if the worst happened.

Thanks

TC

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TC

Maybe you could have a wire made that would connect to the mast rotation bolt. Two roller swagged fittings and then pass a slightly longer bolt through. Remember, the wire needs to be tight enough to keep the base in place (can you lift the mast vertically off the ball or out of the sockett?) but long and loose enough to allow the mast to rotate. If you would like to make the wire shorter, just drill a hole through the base of the mast and attach the wires there. Check the length of the roller connectors first to make sure the length doesn't scrape the tramp or crossbar. You may have to make it longer because of this problem. Leave enough metal for support and don't forget to seal the new hole. Once installed, you may want to make a sleeve to cover the mast base as getting a finger caught between the mast and wire, especially while jibing, could take off a finger (the wire should not be this tight, but after the rig is loose, movement is possible). A big windsufing type mast base cover, padded with velcro closures would be perfect.

Thanks Hammond. I'll take a look and see. I do know the area around the base of the mast is tight w/ the SC cabin. I'm thinking instead of drilling my mast I may square nut another horned cleat to the beginning of the luff track and pass a wire in the gap that's between the support legs of the horn. I'd still have to anchor the ends to the cross bar, but this would allow mast rotation and would be fairly reversable if it didn't work.

My only worry is if the situation were ever to arise again, where the mast pops out of its base, would it destroy that section of luff track in the process.

Another idea...if I have the room... might be to attach a "reacher tang" to the forward side of the mast base and run a cable through it. I'd still have to anchor the ends, but this too would allow the mast to rotate freely while limiting the slack. I could use some JB Weld or DP 190 epoxy to hold the tang in place w/o drilling into my mast. I'm not real keen on drilling due to the salt air around me and how it loves untreated aluminum. For that matter I could also take two roller swage fittings and epoxy the cable into the fitting. I wouldn't reccomend doing this with shoud wires, but for this application it should be ok....I think. That Dupont DP 190 is some strong stuff. I've seen lap shear sample tests run on it where the metal fatigued before the epoxy bond would break

Thanks for the help....didn't mean to hijack this thread!

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TC