Pigtails with amsteel?

I have a lot of Amsteel 7/64" (we make our own hammocks so I bought some when it was on sale), could I use it to make pigtails for my jib? It is plenty strong to hold me and my 14 year old son in a hammock. I also have a small amount of 1/8".

I can splice it, should I splice an eye in the middle and at each end around the blocks and a soft shackle to attack it? Or a snap shackle? I can make extras pretty easily for spares.

The problems with Amsteel (Dyneema) are:
1) Creep - the line will stretch gradually under load. This isn't such a big problem on a short section like a pigtail, but it's a problem.
2) Chafe - unless the joining surfaces are smooth, the line will chafe and eventually break - when you least expect it and at the very worst possible time (Murphy's Law). You need to keep watch over it and replace it often. Best to use eye-splices with thimbles.

I would avoid snap shackles or any hard shackles for that matter. They have two main problems. First, the fewer metal parts you have flogging on the end of the jib, the better off you are. A steel shackle will beat up the front of your mast every time you tack. The second problem is that a shackle (especially a snap shackle) has the tendency to get hung up on the diamond wires during a tack. When this happens, the crew has to reach forward and pop the clew of the jib off of the diamond wire. This can be an annoyance during day sailing and can cost you big during a race.

On my boat, I have evolved to tying the jib blocks directly to the clew of the jib. Each block is tied to the pigtail line using a bowline which is then wrapped with rigging tape. Then the pigtail is tied directly to the clew plate using a larks head knot. The only down side to this system is that you have to thread the jib sheet each time you rig. I don't really find that to be a problem though and the benefits of no hang-ups during tacks more than make up for it.

sm

thanks for the help

Is 7/64" good enough? It has a pretty impressive working load (although I know that gets reduced with sharp bends around rough things and knots/splices). If it is strong enough then that is one less thing I need to buy.

Creep shouldn't be a problem because it really doesn't matter if a pigtail is a half inch longer, right? It doesn't creep that much, that is why we use it for hammocks rather than something like nylon webbing. It can hold my ample behind off the ground all night without stretching enough to bottom out.

Chafing shouldn't be a problem either because I can have spares on hand. I plan to make a zippy bag to store on the boat for bits and pieces we might need. I'm used to checking for wear on our hammock lines and it is pretty easy to check for wear on something at eye level or below.

I don't want to have to knot it each time. My husband is not so great at knots. He can manage a larks head (so long as you don't ask him what it is called!) but how do you larks head to the clew if you have the rest of the rigging attached to it?

If I don't do this I have the mini blocks bashing around hitting stuff as they are currently attached directly to the clew.

What about a soft shackle?

I just leave the pigtail/blocks tied to the jib - no need to remove it. Like I said, I have to thread the jib sheet each time I rig.

sm

Steve
I know it's winter... got any pictures of your set up?

You've got me thinking about changing.
Minus 22C and sunny this morning....

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

sm

Wow, that was quick.

Almost exactly the same as my set up.... I like the tape, good idea.

I have a smooth Wichard non-swivel-eye boat snap (sort of like a carabineer) at the clew, so I can leave my jib sheets threaded.
Never has a problem with this shackle...

I have has a problem with the main sail snap shackle....
A cheaper version of #20803 on page 24 of the current catalogue.
It was a devil of a job to get the Hobie into the wind on that day, with no operational main, blowing around 14 knots, gusting 20.... I eventually grabbed the clew of the main, and tied a piece of line through the hole of the clew and around the boom so we could sail that race. 3rd that day. Next time I won't go cheap...

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Thanks for the picture

Yeah but that would mean my husband tying two knots that would be a major pain in the neck if they came undone on the water. Sometimes I am not around when he rigs the boat, like yesterday we took out some friends of ours. I rented a getaway for me, the mom and the 6 yr old girl and the teenager went on our boat with my son and my husband. I think we may have a bunch of salt in the veins of the six year old, especially once I let her have the tiller. Apologies to anyone in San Diego yesterday who saw a boat with a very odd set of course corrections going on!

I think I'm going to go ahead and try the soft shackle but I'm going to use 1//8" amsteel instead of the thinner stuff. I can make a bunch of extras to go in our boat bag in case one fails and the jib clew is pretty smooth from almost 40 years of being polished by the shackle on there right now.

I use a shackle against the jib. Absolutely no problems with it catching anywhere.

The advantage of having pigtails with a shackle at end for connection to jib is that 1. It is so much faster to set up and attach jib ropes, pig tail to jib and 2. You do no have to thread ropes every time you sail...... i.e. my jib ropes are permanently threaded through the pigtails.

At day end I simply detach and leave under boat cover.

_________________
Richard Stephens

Dyneema is fine for jib leads, if you tie your knots off correctly they don't have to creep. (at least not noticeable over a couple of years)

http://www.murrays.com/01-4015.html


We've been using something like these for the past season, Pretty sweet!

_________________
Tom
Fleet 259, Central Coast CA
H18 ('81)
H18 ('85)
H20 ('97)
H18 ('78)

yes but how do I make one of those?!? Also how do you attach the mini blocks? Larks head? Is the loop big enough to fit the block through?

I'm new to splicing, but... but you get a fid and make whatever loops you're comfortable with.

_________________
Tom
Fleet 259, Central Coast CA
H18 ('81)
H18 ('85)
H20 ('97)
H18 ('78)

I made up a pigtail system I started using. It is one I made and it works quite well.

Made using 1/8" Dynema and a 3/8" alum rod with two holes.
I spiced a loop at each end big enough to loop hitch the small blocks.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79692194@N02/16625179584/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/79692194@ ... otostream/

To use, you slip the loop thru the clew grommet and pull over each end of the toggle. Pull tight and it is snug.
Just as easy to take off then put on.

It looks great and super professionally done.

_________________
Richard Stephens