New Aka brace shear bolts ?

The working aka shear bolts on my new TI have black nuts on them and the spares on the braces are held by a circular clip. In the spare parts that came with the boat there are two additional shear bolts that are not drilled for the circular clip but instead have white nylon nuts on them that seem to be self locking if you try to run them any farther up than just the end of the bolt. The manual for the boat still says replace a broken shear pin and use the circular clip to secure it.

I'm assuming the manual is out of date and you now put the replacement pins on with a wrench or do you put them on finger tight ?
That is, after you have used the spare on the aka brace that has a clip ?

Is there a new part number for the replacement since it is an assembly of a bolt with a locking nut ?

Thanks

Chris

The spare bolts which are on the kayak have clip so that you can fix a broken sheer pin while on the water without tools. The extra (3rd spare in essence) that comes in the spare parts kit is intended to replace the bolt once you get back to shore and have access to tools. Then keeping the bolt with the clip as the on-the-water spare.

_________________
Jacques Bernier
http://www.hobie.com/
http://www.facebook.com/HobieCatCompany

Any pics?

Here's a pic of the supplied spare bolt with no clip hole and the nut that comes with it.

Jaques, I have part number 8032081 for the shear bolt from the catalog.
Is that the bolt with clip hole or the bolt with nut ?

Thanks
Chris

This is just my opinion of course, but if going off shore, planning to go thru surf, or if you regularly go thru rough chop it's probably not a bad idea to add an additional safety rope which prevents the AMA's from folding in or the aka braces popping out. I recommend a 3/16 or 1/4 inch stretchy nylon rope. I have nylon ropes attached perminantly to either the front padeye or tied around the front outer aka hull brace (where it mounts to the hull with allen bolts), then I have a simple clip at the other end that clips to the stainless padeye in the center of the AMA on the older TI's (that padeye might be removed on the 2015's, you would need to find an alternate clip point). On mine the rope remains with the boat all the time and when setting up you simply just clip it on, takes all of two seconds. That simple rope fix helps with three things, in the event you sheer a nylon bolt it prevents the AMA from folding in completely until you can stop and replace the broken pin. The rope also prevents the AKA bars from coming out if the accidentally unclip and slide out. The rope also prevents the AMA's from rattling around and prevent the ama's from falling off if a bungy breaks. This is the simplest fix of all on TI's yet I almost never see any TI's out there with any fix at all. I always wonder about this because I have personally sheered at least a dozen or two of those sheer bolts, and know first hand if you break one of those sheer bolts while underway it almost always results in a capsize of the boat. Maybe It's just me but if I'm pushing my boat hard in rough chop or I hit a powerboat wake hard the force of the water on my AMA breaks that sheer pin often. It also sheers off if I'm tooling along pushing the boat hard in gusty conditions and a sudden gust comes along and buries the AMA, this sheers that bolt pretty much every time this happens. Fortunately for me I have that safety rope and when I hear the bolt pop I don't capsize, but I do have to stop and replace the sheer bolt. I can't be the only one out there with a modded TI who goes offshore in chop or thru boat wakes, I walked down the row at the EC challenge and looked at most of the 30 or so AI/TI's entered in the event and don't recall seeing any with any safety rope (though most did have HAKA's or tramps). By the sounds of it I appear to be the only one with this problem. I suspect the problem is more speed related than anything else I suppose if your only going 5-6 mph it appears there is no problem, but I simply can't imagine nobody has hit a sudden big powerboat wake (Sarasota is the go fast boat capital of the world BTW). I just don't want anyone to be suprised, and say nobody told me this could happen.....
Just my 2cents
Bob

PS if you don't believe me here is a video of my walk thru on the Friday evening before EC (Watertribe Everglades Challenge, www.watertribe.org) launch where I video'ed every TI and AI entered in the event, with none of the boats I observed having any precautions. This years EC event was particularly harsh and had to be cancelled, in my opinion all the more reason to take simple precautions to prevent disaster....... (caution very boring video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e05gGHpUYjg

Thanks Bob, It's already on my ToDo list, I've been paying attention
Unfortunately the SST padeye is gone. A step backwards IMO.

Chris

I can attest to both sheering an aka bolt and having the akas pop out of the crossbraces (nearly catastrophically) on a dive trip in Dec. Search for "key largo" or "Ill-fated" on this forum.

I have since modded my TI with ratchet straps to hold the akas in and locked as a backup, and will be adding the line from bow padeye to ama padeye as Bob mentions. I've also added a secondary cargo strap to each tramp in case the plastic buckles break.

I'll post a thread with pics soon.

Bottom line - the akas WILL slip out of the crossbraces on you in rough chop one day if you don't have some redundancy. When they do, they will probably damage your crossbraces, dump whatever or whoever is on the tramps into the sea, sheer your brace bolt, perhaps lose your ama and akas, and generally create a bad day for you. If you are solo and on the tramps when this happens, wave bye to your TI / AI and get to swimming.

I've been out on my TI in rough seas, heavy chop, and high-winds and their was no structural failure or akas popping out of cross braces on my stock TI with no mods, just tramps. It's a fun ride. Not saying it can't happen, just that it hasn't.

The only time I broke a shear bolt was when my passenger sat on the tiller (lost steering just long enough) as I was coming into the boat ramp and the ama hit a pier, very slowly. Shear bolt broke as it was supposed to but the tramp prevented the ama from folding in and it sprung back.

Thanks for the pic of the old bolt Chris but what I was hoping for was the new one!




In nearly 5 years of TI sailing, often in rough chop/ocean swells and with a lot of hiking out, I have never had an aka slip out from the crossbar, so it is definitely not a given.
Redundancy is good though. The tramps when fitted properly do prevent this and an aka brace collapse as well.
A simple line from the aka knuckle back to the hull like Kayaking Bob has previously posted about is also a good back-up.

Yes, it is probably a good idea to run a safety line for the akas, but I never have. Like Stringy, in 4 yrs sailing my 2011 AI, I've never had an aka separate from a cross-bar. Recently, when I was doing some things in the driveway with my AI 2, I put the akas in. I thought they were all in, but later noticed one was not fully seated. Clearly, that operator error could/would cause problems during a sail. I was careless in my driveway, and wondered if some of the people whose aka/x-bar had separated had been careless. My mantra now is "double check...be sure to have the akas locked in."

I should also add that none of my friends have had an aka separate, at least none have ever mentioned it.

I've not broken a brace shear bolt in 8 yrs of sailing AIs. I've had 2 friends ram a piling--one was a beginner, the other experienced but lost sight of the piling behind his sail--and break shear bolts. Both accidents were scary but basically just a nuisance. On the other hand, if you ram a piling, there is always the chance that you will do some serious damage to your sail--an unhappy event.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Stringy, that bolt is the new one or maybe it is just new to me. It is a loose spare from the TI kit and has no hole through it for the split ring, only the white nut.
The working one on the TI has a black nut and the spare in the aka has no nut but has the hole through its shaft and a split ring holding it in place. From what I had read on the forum I thought all spares were supplied with the split ring hole so they could be stored on the aka.

I'm a bit confused now after hearing that the split ring one is a "temporary" spare that you change out later.

I guess the Hobie thinking is:
1. Break a shear pin while on the water
2. Replace it with the temporary one from the aka and secure with the split ring since the nut from the sheared one probably fell in the water.
3. Later, replace the replacement with a spare that has a nut then return the replacement to the aka.

I suppose the plain vs drilled bolts have different part numbers. I'm not clear on why you wouldn't just install a spare with nut immediately even if you just tightened it finger tight. I can see how the split rings would be a pain to deal with on the water and already went looking for some sst hitch pins to use instead.

Tell me if I'm missing something.
Thanks

Chris

This is precisely why I modify my shear bolts by elongating the hole in them to fit a 2mm zip-tie. Hugely easier to fit with wet fingers while away from shore, and absolutely zero need to replace it with a nut and bolt later. The zip-tie is threaded through itself to make a secure self-locking loop.

I would recommed that you modify ALL shear bolts to ensure there is a vertically elongated slot filed in them to tske a zip-tie. In my opinion, those split rings are the work of the devil .

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I like the Ty-wrap idea Tony. I would have to have a dozen of those split rings on the boat to account for the ones I drop in the water while trying to install one.
I guess with the new bolts you have to drill your own starting hole as well unless Hobie is offering both drilled and un-drilled versions.

Matt Miller can you chime in here and tell us if there are part numbers for both versions of the aka shear bolts ?

Regarding the possibility of Aka detachment. I haven't heard any mention of drilling the aka's for a bolt or hitch pin to supplement the button catch. It wouldn't take much, maybe a 3/16 or 1/4" pin and there's no way they could come out but you could still easily remove them if you need to for your method of transport.


Chris

Chris, it is far less trouble to just run a line out to the akas.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Ok, I think I may have been a bit over dramatic regarding akas coming out. After my experience on December, I guess I'm just gun shy and assume they will come out. The folks on this forum with more experience than me are in a better position to give advice.

At any rate. I'm still a firm believer in a bit of redundancy and proper hardening.

Great thread that will hopefully help keep others from having a bad day!