Adventure Island Crossbrace on Bow instead of Stern Aka

To the best of my ability to ascertain, this year's AI Amas are both longer and wider.

I understand that Hobie is unlikely to listen to a suggestion, even if its a good one. Such is life.

By the way if the Tandem Island Aka's fit that may be a workable suggestion, but I doubt the crossbraces will be long enough to fit where the current attachment point is on the boat. I do understand the need for the boat to be folded up quickly, but as can be seen from the orientation of the TI crossbraces that can be done regardless of what direction they come from.

Correct, brace orientation is different on the TI vs the AI. The engineering was done on each differently, but with the same objective; to make it accessible from a seated position. That is VERY important.

We do love good ideas here at Hobie Cat and have used many from users over the years. We are not closed minded, but this one is not going to work for a majority of reasons stated.

Amas are really very little as far as stepping over them, but the akas are higher up on the new AI, so stepping over one is a little more of a step.

Consensus is typically King in these things.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Matt:

Thanks for the reply. Consensus does not lead to good decision making. Clarity does.

I don't see why crossbraces from the bow Aka would be any harder to have within the reach of the pilot on an AI allowing for quick disconnect under all of the conditions you listed.

The Amas are a barrier I can't get over into the boat. Maybe I'm the only old big guy who has one, but when I let an experienced sailing friend try it on Lake Mead he came to the same conclusion about it being awkwardly engineered. Pulling the Amas forward from the bow and putting a spring loaded crossbrace down at the connection point near the seat for easy operator control would improve the boat.

I don't expect this year's model to be re-engineered anytime soon, but this is a suggestion you might want to look at a bit more carefully before discarding it.

Best regards,
Ace1

Matt:

How much would it cost to do a computer model of a 2015 AI Aka crossbrace done my way? From that, how much would it cost to make a pair using CNC tooling?

Ace1

The brace is already in the best position for ease of use. Right beside you. It is designed that way for ease of use ON THE WATER, not for launching.
I own a 2015 AI and have previously owned a 2013 AI. As far as launching and getting in and out of the boat, I have found absolutely no difference.
The old saying, "because it has always been like that". There is a good reason why it has always been like that. Hobie don't just whack these boats together without thought. Yes there are options on the placement of the braces. Find the best place and then leave it there. Which is exactly what they have done.
Rather than trying to redesign the boat………simply look at how you are launching and how you are getting into it.
The easiest solution when launching the boat with the amas in, is after launching, simply turn the boat around before you deploy the amas. Surely that is not too hard.
Maybe you need to get with an experienced AI owner who can help you.

_________________
2021 Dune Hobie Lynx

There is no reason that the brace cannot be right beside me coming from the bow Aka.

I am launching the boat in the only manner that works from the trailer I have. I have tried various ways of "getting in to it." None of them are efficient. I launch off a beach in Lake Mead NV. The best of them is to spin the boat around, struggle with getting behind both sides of her to push the Ama forward and clip the cross brace in place, then board from the Starboard side as the Port side now has the extension on the tiller and would be awkward to get over. Thus the reference to Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times.

If the cross braces came from the bow Aka, after putting the boat in the water I could simply pull the Ama forward toward me on both sides and with a spring loaded closure push it into place. Then spin her around and duck under the Aka.

What amazes me with this thread is the lack of understanding that is being displayed: people assume I haven't different ways to approach the issue of opening the Amas.

Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results. I have found the best way to deal with the configuration as it currently exists. It is the only thing I don't like about the boat, and I don't like it every time I launch it. So no, I'm not trying to redesign the boat, I'm simply looking to improve an existing configuration with what appears to me a relatively simple change.

There is no local Hobie Island club on Lake Mead. I have seen one other Hobie Island on the lake since getting the boat. It was a 2015 Tandem Island that had come here from Mass.

“Humans are allergic to change. They love to say, ‘We’ve always done it this way." Rear Admiral Grace Hopper

Yes there is, the kayak you purchased doesn't do it like that!

You are really demonstrating a stubbornness which is utterly foreign to this forum. For goodness sake, go and build your own solution and come back and show us just how clever your version is, but let this thread die.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Tony Stott:

I could care less if you think my stubbornness is totally foreign to this forum. Being told to shut up and go away (which is essentially what your last post says for me to do) is rude. If you don't like what I have to say, you have no need to reply, so please don't.

Unless it is far to expensive I'd be willing to pay Hobie to make a computer model of the change I want, and to build it using CNC tools.

Wow... I've been reading this forum for about a year now and have never 'heard' the tone of post that Ace1 has used before. Perhaps if 'he' weren't so rude in the first place, people would be a bit more inclined to help. It's testament to Hobie's attitude that Matt has replied at all...!

_________________
2015 Tandem Island - Golden Papaya "HALIBOO"
(retired) Outback - Hibiscus Red

Ace1,

I'm sure Hobie looked at both possibilities during development and settled on the brace direction that is now in production because it worked better than the direction that you would like it to go. Now, you are more than welcome to modify your boat as you see fit (lots of people on this forum have). If you do, and it seems that it works better, feel free to write up a report on the forum for all of us to read. We love innovation! Hobie does pay attention to the forum, as you've seen, and we have driven changes from forum suggestions. I don't think you are going to be able to convince Hobie to expend R&D time, even if you offer to pay, in something that they already made a decision on. Now let's all be civil and stick to being constructive.

_________________
2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

I am constructive and civil. I'm assertive.

It has yet to be seen if Hobie's willing to do R&D at my expense. Is there any reason not to ask them what it would cost to generate a computer model to do it my way and to make a CNC prototype from that model if it can be made workable?

So I will end this thread on this note: I have asked Hobie a pair of binary questions. They can answer no and end the discussion, they can answer yes with a dollar figure that makes no sense and end the discussion, or they can say yes with figures for a computer model and the CNC prototype at a reasonable cost and do some R&D at my expense. I don't assume nor presume anything, the ball is in Hobie's court.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

Hi Ace,

It's been done and it works great. If you have any further questions on how I did this, contact me directly at my username at gmail dot com. I can give you a list of reasons why it's better this way. Penguinman (hobie engineer and product tester) was quite impressed with the changes I've made when he saw them at the EC this year.

j

Don't be intimidated by tony (he's a know it all and a dick). He's actually the reason I stopped using the hobie forum. Good luck modding your boat!!!



https://www.dropbox.com/s/hwdcgvlskvdsk ... 7.jpg?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/sylj94vwp85yd ... 5.jpg?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8g5ruhbehxbr ... 2.jpg?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1xmt4h241vuw ... 1.jpg?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/iuo1z9lajn4ue ... 4.jpg?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/ot8buv14sgb9m ... 1.jpg?dl=0

*edited for spelling and to add images

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod

I Have a 2015 AI, certainly not my first Hobie, though my first Island kayak. I was a little concerned about rigging time and fussing about to get it afloat. I designed my trailer so it travels folded and pulls off stern first, onto the trolley, good to launch.

I trolley mine down stern first into the water, float it and remove the trolley. Then standing stationary I spin the kayak, pushing and and locking the amas into place, before ducking under an aka and hopping into the yak a minute later. I find it incredibly easy.

I cant see what the fuss is about to be honest.

Thanks for the character reference kayakman7. I assume you never fold in an ama to bring a fish aboard.

Everyone is welcome to mod their AI or TI, but I didn't see you insisting that everyone else is wrong.

BTW There is no possibility of me being intimste with ace (or you for that matter)

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I've seen Kayakman7's rig, it is as cool as it gets. By reversing his tramps and AKA bars (coolest idea ever btw) he is able to get what he wants out of his boat.
Doing exactly what you want to do is really simple and easily done, you don't need an R&D team to figure it out. Just take your right rear AKA bar and snap it into the left front AKA pocket. Do the same with the other one. Now take the front AKA bars and place them in the back.
Now put the AMA's out and mark the new position where you want to drill for the new ball. If it was me I would leave the old ball alone and just order two more from one of the on line dealers or your local dealer. Of course you can just thread the plastic on the gunwale and screw the new ball in temporarily to just try it out, but eventually you will need something a bit stronger. What I would do is tap a hole into a small aluminum plate, I would the grab one of my spare nylon AKA sheer bolts and saw a small flat screw driver slot into the end (so it can be removed later), now take some light fishing line and fish it thru the new hole you just drill into the hull. Now run the nylon screw into the plate (upside down) tie the fishing line to the cross hole, now gob some contact adhesive or silicone to the top of the plate. Now pull in your fishing line and pull the nylon bolt up thru the hole and hold it up against the inside of the hull until the adhesive sets up (I usually leave it overnight). Next morning cut the fishing line and unscrew the nylon bolt out the bottom of the hole and let it drop (you can fish it out of the hull later just by tipping the boat up). Walla you now just screw the new ball into place and it should be as secure as the original ball. Now you can rig your Island how you like it, and can always put it back to original if you ever decide to sell the boat. If it doesn't work out and you want to change it back to original just remove the ball and either screw in a stainless buttonhead into the hole, or take your handy dandy Hobie plastic welder (everyone should have one, they are awesome) and fill the hole with matching weld. If you never plan to use tramps, you can also just purchase an extra set of rear AKA bars (I've seen them on line for $119 dollars each, and just put them on the front instead of the original front AKA bars. By doing it this way you can actually have two braces on each side if you so desire, just flip the one your not using into it's parked position and lock the one you want to use at the moment. If you get into some rough water and start getting scared, just engage the other brace as well (for added safety). You should be able to reach either brace set from within your cockpit. Personally I have never had my boat out without the tramps mounted on the boat, without the tramps I'm trapped in that seat and I can't hike out to balance the boat while sailing, the whole point on any trihull is to use your weight to keep those AMA's out of the water completely. We use our boat mostly for snorkeling and diving (offshore mostly in the keys) to get in or out of the boat we just sit on the AMA's climb onto the tramps then take off. Actually I have never folded my AMA's in for any reason, I always fold them out on the trailer, lash the tramps, and do all my rigging in the parking lot, then back up to the water to launch, when done sailing I just park the boat, back up to the water and pull the boat onto the trailer with the AMA's out and the tramps on. I sometimes pull the sail out and lay it across the hull before putting it on the trailer but not always (depending on the overhead clearance in the parking lot). I then pull away from the water and finish folding the AMA's, remove the tramps, and batton everything down for transport (basically toss everything into the boat and strap it down the rest of the way). Around here anyway most of the ramps are very busy with people waiting in line to launch and retrieve. To launch I just push off spin the boat around, slip the mirage drive in, lock the rudder down and I'm off on another exciting adventure. I almost always pedal away from the launch area before ever worrying about any sails and such (as I have a reputation of bouncing off boats and bouys in the crowded harbor). Another pointer about maneuvering around crowded harbors is you can spin your mirage drive around for reverse if you ever need it. I usually have my paddle in hand as well (just in case I need it to fend off other boats and docks (the TI is much bigger and not the most maneuverable of crafts in tight places. As an example I use the brail method to travel thru the Adams Waterway in Key Largo (lol).
Hope this helps
FE

PS: I've never fished, or had any reason to fold my AMA's in (just being honest). If I were to ever start fishing once I got ready to pull the fish in I would just sit on the AMA on the edge of the boat (when snorkeling we always have people sitting on the AMA's coming on and off the boat from the water (it's the easiest way to board, especially when you have 60 lbs of scuba diving gear on).

Everyone meet the Adams-waterway in Key Largo (the only place to cross from Gulf side (where all the resorts are) to Atlantic side (where all the great diving is), definitely not sailing friendly....