Leaking Forward Hatch

I may as well add my 2 cents: I, too, have a 2014 TI that gets a few gallons of water in the hull during a 4-6 hour sail. I don't think it enters through the front hatch. I'm guessing the water is coming in where the steering and rudder lines exit the hull but I really don't know where it's getting in. Everything else seems well sealed.

I am disappointed that my boat fills up. I think that it should stay a lot drier when everything is sealed.

Try the soapy water and air pressure test? Search around scupper holes. You can tape off the bottom ends and force any air out the top to make it easier.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Matt,

Can you confirm whether the hatch is designed so that the hatch cover seal makes contact with the hull surrounding the hatch lip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our 2010 TI always had water in the hull after a decent sail. It was coming in from two places:
1) -the forward hatch bungee holders (both starboard screwed fittings had threads that had been cut all the way through the plastic hull and any water that hit the fitting went straight into the hull)
2)- the seal between the hatch cover and hatch (the seals were a poor fit made worse by the hull flexing)
The bungee fitting leak was fixed by coating the threads in marine sealant and refitting.
The hatch leak was fixed by fitting a nylon spray cover.

The following was previously posted in another thread but as it is relevant to this issue I've reposted it here:

The TI does suffer from more flexing/oil canning than the AI, probably due to the larger volume of the hull. There are places on the AI that I can kneel on with no hull distortion yet on the TI those same positions cause significant distortion.
I don't consider this a safety issue though as flexing is a long way from actual hull breaching.

In this short clip the bow hatch opening flexing can be clearly seen.


This was the source of water ingress that was fixed by adding a simple spray cover, seen in the pics below.



On my to do list is a reinforcement on the inside of the hatch lip that would strengthen it and stop the lip bending inwards, which creates a gap between the hatch seals and the inflexible hatch lid. The spray cover stopped virtually all the water getting in so I haven't bothered with the reinforcement.

Only the AI and the TI seems to be using 2 seals on the front hatch. In my opinion that needs a very accurate fit between hull and hatch cover. The rotomold process is not that precise and as the bow is flexing (very revealing film clip, Stringy!), there will be no way both sealings will work at same time.

If the cut out of the hatch and the hull is SO BAD performed as it was in my 2012 AI there will be NO sealing at all to do the work.
There was a open gap ALL THE TIME at BOTH longsides of the front hatch. I took in loads of water.

I, personally don't like the idea of the "shower cap". That stops water that already passed the hatch cover. The water should be stopped outside the hatch cover.

I have not seen Hobie admit anything about the leaking front hatch in this forum.
The design is what it is.
The performance of cutting and mounting is what it is.

For those (a few?) that use the AI/TI offshore in rough conditions and discover that front hatch is leaking, the problem probably have to be fixed by themselves.

There are several methods shown and described in this forum.

Be careful if you need to do additional cutting/adjusting in the hull!

best regards
thomas

That is a lot of water to come in through a few small holes that may seldom be under water. The front hatch is NOT well sealed on some boats. You should focus on sealing the front hatch through one of the methods above. If you still get gallons of water in your boat after sealing the front hatch, then you have to get serious about finding your leak.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

What is to admit? We know hatches are difficult to seal completely and sometimes need some additional tuning. Especially when being pushed hard and forced under water.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Shouldn't Hobie be doing some sort of QC on these boats during the manufacturing process? I would think that during that process they discovered that the boat didn't seal well then they would toss that hull. Cars get leak tested when they come off of an assembly line, why doesn't the AI/TI? It just sounds like they get popped out of the mold, some fittings screwed on, and they are packed and sent out the door. Has the ramp up in production due to the demand caused less quality boats to be built? I don't have a leaky boat, but QC issues did arise with respect to the steering on my TI.

_________________
2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

About "What is to admit?"
This was just an answer to scc, who had a question for you:
"Can you confirm whether the hatch is designed so that the hatch cover seal makes contact with the hull surrounding the hatch lip?"
More or less meaning not to expect to much of an answer from Hobie. Some topics are best handled outside this forum as I now understand. This was NOT in anyway intended as critics at all.

About "sometimes need some additional tuning"
You must be joking. I took in about 10 gallons of water in a couple of hours. This is a serious matter to me.
The work to make the front hatch water tight was no way near "some additional tuning".

I DO criticise Hobie (not you Matt) for the poor job to fit the hull and hatch together and for poor quality assurance to not sort out kayaks that should not reach end user.

For us, that live in far away exotic countries, the looong chain of delivery complicates everything due to diminishing responsibilty and diminishing will to to take costs. (Handling time NOT diminishing!)
For us it is a real PIA to get a kayak that really should not have left the production plant.

best regards
thomas
(happy Hobie end customer with opinions)

To be clear... we have acknowledged (admitted) issues with hatch leaks. Not a secret.

Even looking at this thread, the results vary greatly from dry to leaks. These are both from trimming errors here and other causes. Rest assured, we have been actively chasing the factory to do better at this.

Dealers should be correcting these issues in the field through contact with our warranty department. Harder to help when you are far from help though.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

A few shots of what I put my TI through now and then. Hull is usually dry as a bone, maybe a cup full of water at the most. No mods to forward hatch or twist and stow hatches

_________________
Sledder does it better

Excellent pictures. Some people do that and take on a lot of water. You are one of the lucky ones apparently with a good hatch seal.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

@dave202
Also admire your pictures!

From what I have read in this forum: you could get leaking problems when you change your hatch seals...

best regards
thomas

That was my experience--minimal leaking until I put in a new seal.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I don't usually see that much water over the bow, but I almost always get a couple cups of water in the hull.
I've been thinking about screwing some 1/4x1" x 10" under the flat part of the hatch opening on each side. Then take a 1/4x1x15" slightly bent with foam on the underside across the center of the hatch cover. Then screw the hatch down with wing nuts. This would do two things, i would strengthen the bow opening, plus it would draw down the center area of the hatch cover (which always seems to have a gap). With this setup if the bow flexes it won't break the seal on the gasket. And will hopefully keep the hatch opening from oil canning when the bow flexes (like in Stringy's video).
To be honest I hardly use that hatch anyway (mostly because it leaks, and I try to store as little weight as possible up front). The hatch is actually a bit of a PIA because what ever I store in there I have to take back out and pump the water out every weekend (I keep an old shop vac next to the boat, just to empty it every weekend).
If I ever do the mod I will post photos.
Bob