New Hobie owner / Capsize freakout.

Brand new to the forum...
My buddy and I bought a 79' H18 that we are planning to sail on Lake Mendota in Madison, WI. With some minor repairs and some new lines we should be out soon.

Are initial concern is capsize recovery. I have silicone sealed the mast and we have a ballast bag. We plan on getting a mast float. I have looked at mast floats available and not sure how the float attaches to the mast. How does this work? Does each float have an attachment kit? It would seem to me that each type of Hobie mast is different there would not be a standard attachment kit. Do we have to buy a "Hobie 18" float/attachment kit?
I weight 140lbs and my partner on the boat weighs 220lbs. Any capsize advise appreciated

Scott & Dur

The 30112 version is the one you can mount on the H18 mast. It's a complete kit.

MAST FLOAT KIT - MAMA UNIVERSAL
SHAFT MOUNTED MAMA BOB
DISPLACEMENT: 59 LBS

https://static.hobiecat.com/item_attachments/30112z52.pdf

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

At a combined 360 lbs, you will have NO problem righting the boat. If it's a '79 H18, the mast is probably all aluminum (no fiberglass comptip), so the chances of it leaking are slim. There are still rivets in the mast that could be loose and allow leaks, but even if they do, I'm sure you'll be able to get it back upright with plenty of time to spare (I also have a '79 H18). The mast alone has enough buoyancy to keep the boat propped up on it's side. I've heard that it's still possible to turtle with the boat even if your mast doesn't leak, but I've never seen it, and I've capsized at least a dozen times. It seems that it would take a lot of wind and very rough seas to make that happen. I even pitchpoled my boat at one point and almost completely turtled, and it STILL came back up on it's side. Of course, a mast float will ensure that you'll never turtle the boat, but it's typically not necessary.

One thing to note is that a mast float will make the mast somewhat heavier when stepping the mast, and will also require just a little bit more weight to right. Based on past experience, I know my boat takes ~295 lbs to right. I've tried it with ~285 lbs to no avail, and I've tried it with 300 lbs without any problem. I'd expect that with a mama-bob, you might need 310 lbs to right the boat. Maybe someone else can chime in on that one.

Capsizing & recovering is really no big deal, once you've done it once before. And it gets you much more comfortable with the boat and gives you a better feel for how far you can push it. You'd be amazed how far over you can go and still recover from it! Capsizing sounds violent and terrifying, but it's not at all. (pitchpoling is, however. Luckily, that's a lot harder to do! ) Once the boat gets up above 20-30 degrees, the side force/heeling moment on the sail decreases rapidly, and the sail seems to act as more of a "parachute," slowing the capsize. The safest way to sail in gusty conditions is to sit on the edge of the windward hull. As the boat lifts up, lean/scoot back so that your butt is more on the side of the lip. By the time the mast hits the water, you should be sitting on the side of the hull. It takes 3-5 seconds to actually go over. From there, it's simply a matter of jumping off the back (thus avoiding the sails), swimming around to loose the mainsheet & traveller, furl the jib, spin the boat around so that the mast & bows are each pointing 45 degrees to the wind, grabbing on to your righting line and leaning back. your weight should be more than enough to bring the boat back upright. Be careful to avoid being hit by the hull coming down above you, and grab onto the crossbar to keep the boat from going back over the other way. Also, don't stand on the daggerboard, as your toes could get caught in between the daggerboard and the trunk if the daggerboard slips. It sounds scary, but it's really not bad. I'd suggest getting a righting line/painter (I use the Easy Rite from the Hobie catalog with much success).

Not a Hobie 18, but these should give you some idea of what to expect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rdN7ZFU5QY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqY_zMlETo0

The best way to AVOID a capsize is to keep the traveller out a bit, keep the main/jib sheet un-cleated and in your hand so you can ease it as necessary, and/or "pinch" up (turn up) into the wind whenever a big gust hits you. Any one of these solutions essentially decreases the angle of attack of the sail, decreasing or eliminating the lift and keeping the boat from going over.

The biggest thing is not to be afraid of a capsize. Get a few sails under your belt so that you're comfortable with the boat, and then practice capsizing and righting it. As soon as you have, you understand how to react both to prevent it, and what to do when it happens unexpectedly. It also makes it less intimidating. Hell, capsizing just means you pushed the boat as hard as you can go, and sometimes it's just a fun way to cool off!

Happy sailing!

_________________
Mike

'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921 RIP
'78 H18 (unnamed) sail #14921
'08 H16 sail #114312
'97 H21SC sail #238

mine is a '78, H18. instead of producing speed, these old boats just Heel more.(compared to the new stuff), your best bet is to keep the boat speed up. rudders react quicker and get you out of trouble faster. but if it does happen, and,,, another boater comes by to help, DO NOT hook up and try to pull the boat up. have the "help" move around to the tip of the mast and lift it up. then, if they "walk under it' moving towards the tramp, with you hiking out, they won't even get to the spreaders before the boat comes up. just be ready. hang on and be prepared to get on board quickly.

Guys,

Great information! Feeling better and ALMOST looking forward to practicing a capsize.
On another note, the title for the boat says 79', but the mast DOES have a comptip. Possibly replaced at one time, was told it was a Milwaukee sailing club boat (Not that there is anything wrong with that ).
Will the 30112 kit work with the comptip? Not sure if I'd go with the MAMA. Maybe the just the BOB. (?)

Thanks,
S&D

I sail out of Nepean SC, just upriver from downtown Ottawa ON Canada, on a wonderful stretch of the Ottawa River. While there are some deep sections of the river, much of it is less than 20' deep, so to protect my mast (comp-tip), I installed the Mama Bob. Measure, drill, rivet, mount, and you are good to go. One strap was riveted into the mast head casting, the other into the comp tip. No problem.

You may want to do a 'controlled' capsize, and then a capsize recovery.... near shore, with others around to help you out so you can get a feel for the righting moment. We usually sail with harnesses (for hiking out), and in the event of a capsize, hook the righting line onto the harness.... saves the hands.

One thing, if you are running, and get hit by a puff, turn downwind (NEVER INTO THE WIND) to save the possible capsize. Those hulls have HUGE volume up front and can take a lot of wind. In our case, it was a 30 knot blast that put the bows under, with water all the way up to the cross bar, then our H18SX shook off the water, settled back, and carried on sailing.

good winds

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Thanks John,

Went to the local boat shop and took a look at a Mama Bob they had there. It seems that it only comes with the float (obviously) and two "L" shaped brackets. We must be missing something here. Is there more hardware that should come with the Bob for the comp tip mast.

or should I just order the part in the link below.

Is this for the comp tip mast as well?-
https://static.hobiecat.com/item_attach ... 112z52.pdf


Appreciate all your help,
Scott & Dur

A quick and simple solution is to buy two pool noodles - slit them lengthwise, place them over the shrouds, slide them up the shrouds to the hounds, and secure them up there and to the shrouds with cable ties. There is enough buoyancy to prevent a capsize. Send me a PM and I'll send you a picture by email.

Mama Bob parts should be a rod, the float, two bearings, two eye pads, (curved metal straps), rivets, a very large ring-ding, some washers and a nylon/plastic spacer tube. Measure and drill, and place the rod in position, place the eye pads over the rod, align the eye pads with the holes, rivet the eye pads, (with a dab of silicone) mount the bearings on either side of the Bob, mount the lower washers and spacer, slide the Mama Bob down the rod, add the top washer, and end with the ring ding.

Go sailing and enjoy.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Just trying to assuage your fear a bit. A capsize is usually a slow process, but once it reaches the tipping point try to do the following:

1. Avoid jumping feet first into the sail since you may put a hole in it. If you do fall into the sail, crumple your body as much as you can when you land, then swim off the sail toward the stern quickly but gently. Staying on the sail may cause the boat to turtle.

2. Uncleat the main and jib sheets, and the traveler before trying to right the boat. You don't want the sails powered up when it is righted.

3. Check the mast for leaks by dunking it in the lake. It should float, and if you see bubbles then seal them. A mast with water at the tip is much harder to lift than an empty one.

4. In order of adjustments to prevent a capsize, I do the following:
a. lean out more
b. steer a couple degrees upwind
c. ease the jib
d. ease the main
f. when all else fails, dump the main and prepare to get tea bagged.

Have fun.

Slight suggested modification...

Overall, don't cleat your mainsheet until you have a lot more miles behind you.
The easiest/simplest thing to do when hit by a puff is to let out the mainsheet.
Yes, you might get wet... too bad.

If the conditions are too puffy or too strong for you, let out the traveler by 6" to 8".

When going upwind, and you get hit by a puff, by all means turn into the wind slightly.
That's what we do when we are racing to the upwind mark. We use that puff to come as close to the wind as we can so we can make the mark.
In fact, we 'scallop' our course upwind.
Just be careful not to turn into the wind too hard in a strong puff, as you may rotate the H18, which will cause a capsize.
Go out under controlled circumstances and practice, get a feel for the conditions and your H18.
There is nothing like "time on the water''.

If you are broad reaching or running, and you get hit by a puff, my suggestion is to TURN DOWNWIND.
Turn a little, not a lot.
There is a lot of physics involved, and you'll get used to it.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Great suggestions and information, guys...

Would anyone mind explaining the requirements of the boats position while it is capsized? I have read that the bows must be headed into the wind when righting the boat. I believe that this is a requirement to assist the raising of the sails and keeping the sails luffing. I can see that obviously you would not want the bow facing down wind as the boat may takeoff without you the moment it get back on its feet.

Also, moving the boats position relative to the direction of the wind while capsized. I watched a video on youtube that said to position yourself (weight) on bow to get the boat in the correct position for righting. What is happening aerodynamically and or hydrodynamical by standing on the bow?

Thanks,
Scott & Dur

Allows wind to get under the sail for lift. Leaves you mostly pointed into the wind when righted for safer control of the boat. Fyi... you can pivot the boat into position by moving weight forward (moves bows more into the wind) or aft (moves bows away from wind). Sink the bows the aft will slide down wind and visa versa.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I have the righting line and a righting bag. Came with the purchase.

In question to the diagram...
I am guessing that initially when the sail is laying in the water downwind the hulls and trampoline are creating drag in the wind and they effectively weathervane to the downwind and the sail in turn becomes upwind.

Thanks,
Scott & Dur

Sometimes.

And sometimes the wind pressure on the tramp causes the boat to turtle, which isn't such a bad thing if your mast is sealed, it just means an extra step in righting.

If the mast is sealed and the boat doesn't turtle, then to get the boat pointed in the proper direction you may follow the instructions above, or you may hold onto the bow while in the water to create drag and weathervane the boat. Or, if the boat starts to turtle and you don't want it to, and you're a quick swimmer, then hold onto the mast as close to the head to provide buoyancy and drag.

One more rule: Don't leave the boat! As long as it is floating then you are safe(r), but if you separate from the boat in high winds then it can drift away faster than you can swim. I have seen it happen to others, and nearly experienced it myself, and I was a competitive swimmer and water polo player and it took me great effort and quick thinking to stay with the boat.

Honestly, there are myriad problems you will experience in a sailing career, and what is very important is to keep a clear head, know your equipment, and expect to make changes. You'll run aground. You'll have equipment failure. You'll have crew failure. You'll have less than desirable winds. You'll be disabled in a shipping channel. You'll have all the above happen at the same time. Keep a clear head, know your skill limits, and stay with the boat and you'll make it through most travails. And there is no shame in asking for assistance.

Absolutely great forum guys. Appreciate all of your knowledge and expertise.

Scott & Dur

BTY How do I upload a picture? (Img) button? Not sure how it works...