Replacing Shrouds - different options?

I haven't yet sailed my 1989 H16 (but hope to soon), so I wanted to do a test rig on dry land check things out and look for any parts that might need to be replaced. When I did, what really got my attention were the shrouds - each one has a small kink in it, as if the wire had been sharply doubled over/bent rather than coiled or neatly laced through the tramp. It was still noticeable when the mast was stepped - a little crick in each shroud.

I'm assuming this is a no-brainer - they need to be replaced, right? Too much of a risk of failure/demasting?

Followup, I was doing some shopping around and noticed that there appear to be a few different options. E.G. Murray's has these two:

H16 Shroud 1/8 "
http://www.murrays.com/02-0204-.html

H16 Shroud 5/32" Roller Swaged
http://www.murrays.com/02-0205-12.html

Currently, the shrouds are thinner gauge than the forestay cable (which I believe is typically 1/8"), so I'm assuming the ones I have on there currently are 5/32".

But does it matter which of the two options above I pick? Will the slightly cheaper 1/8" shrouds work just about as well?

Thanks for any input.

Zach

I'm far from an expert, but from everything I've read the "Heavy Duty" 5/32 cables aren't really worth the extra expense on the Hobie 16.

Also if you're looking to re-rig the whole cat you might get a better deal with a kit from somewhere like SaltyDogMarine or Ebay.

Not sure on the kink, I would guess it depends on how severe it is (sounds like yours is reasonably so if it doesn't disappear under load). I went ahead and replaced the rigging because it's cheap insurance if it's of unknown age / sailing conditions.

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1978 H16 - "Banana Split"
2004 Hobie Bravo - "Cheap Thrills" [Sold]

Good tip on SaltyDogMarine, looks like they have a complete new rigging set for about $117. Thanks!

I imagine the existing kink would straighten out under sail, but I do worry about that point being the weak link. Think I will go ahead and shop around a little bit more and look to replace everything for peace of mind.

A few things to consider, some of which I screwed up on in the past.......
Not sure about '89 specifically, but shroud lengths varied over the years, and the optimum length can even vary from original if you're running newer sails, low profile blocks, etc. on an older boat.
The forestay is different for Aussie vs. older style jib halyard....make sure you specify.
You'll typically have a choice of coated vs. non. While I prefer everything else coated, I recommend against a coated forestay. The increased diameter and rubbery covering make the jib hank much more difficult to slide up the forestay when you raise the jib.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16

Thanks Jerome - all good points there.

Most sites seem to be making a dividing line b/w boats produced up until 1994 and those produced after 1995 (presumably '95 is when some of the major changes happened). From what little I know, I think I've got the original style jib halyard (not aussie) and stock jib blocks, traveler, etc.

Sails are an interesting question though...Sail number is 94083. I don't really have a reference for how the hull number/year relate to sail number - does anyone have a sense of if those are newer sails and if that might affect my choice in replacement forestay cable?

Thanks as always...

Zach

I have a 1989 H16 sail # 94074 that I sail on Lake Michigan. About 3 years ago in good wind I heard a 'clunk' and my mast floated down to the water about a mile offshore. The side stay broke at the bottom swage, which I heard is common. Dismasting was actually less violent than I had imagined but it was a pain in the butt. I bought the Murrays 5/32 roller-swaged shrouds with the marine eye instead of the loop (thimble?) and never regretted the expense.

The side stays are about the same length as the ones I had before (which I think I bought 6 years before on eBay from a vendor in Utah). I bought a new forestay and bridle wires this year and together they are a little longer than the ones I had before, which helps a lot for my mast raking. I was able to get rid of the 2nd chain plate to connect the forestay to the bridle wires (was 2 chain plates linked together to get length).

BTW, I don't sail with the original sails any more. I got some new ones from Whirlwind and last year went with the aussie job halyard. I don't know how much that has affected my rig, but I generally like it very tight so the mast does not flop around. I can definitely get more tension on the head sail than with the original jib halyard but now the forestay doesn't flog it as much.

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1989 H16
2009 H16 squaretop

The 5/32" diameter wire has a breaking strength that is about 50% higher than 1/8" diameter wire. For 304 stainless wires, that would be about 2,100 LBS for 1/8" wires vs. 3,300 LBS for the 5/32" wires.

IMO, the extra money for the heavier gauge wire is money well spent.

Kinked shroud wires should definitely be replaced as the kinks severely reduce the strength of the wire. The kinks may appear to straighten when the wire is loaded, but in reality, the damage has already been done. Once the wire is kinked, it's toast.

sm

steel is springy. It can be stressed and pop back to its original shape. A kink indicates it has been stressed beyond is point of return no longer trustworthy.

I was peering over home depot's wire inventory and I must say that it is pretty good. They have clear coated and non-coated in many gauges.

Thanks very much for the input everyone. I think ya'll have convinced me to go with the heavy duty 5/32" shrouds (the ones with the the marine eye at the end). Forestay looks fine from what I remember (and probably carries less load since jib halyard does most of the work, right?), but I'll consider replacing that down the road.

Anybody who uses those 5/32" shrouds know if the marine eye requires any special hardware? Or can I use the regular clevis pin to attach the shroud to the shroud stay adjusters?

marine eye works just like anything else, hole is plenty big for the same pin as the old stays and width is narrower than the thimble so everything fits nicely. One tip from experience is to wrap the pin and ring in electrical tape. I have had those rings come loose - the other time I dismasted the chain plate holding the jib and forestay popped off. I don't know if it was sabotage or the ring just worked loose but now I tape all my rings and even shackles just to be safe. Just wind the tape around the pin, ring and chain plate a few times then slide the shroud cover over if you use them.

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1989 H16
2009 H16 squaretop

Definitely planning on doing that - my existing cotter pins were pretty blown out, so I went ahead and ordered new ones along with some spare clevis pins along with the new shrouds. I'll tape even the new ones though.

Remaining question is how to make sure new shrouds last a long time. Not wadding them up in a small corner of the tramp lacing and having them make sharp 180 degree bends seems like a good start

Do ya'll have any favorite methods for extending the life of shrouds/forestay cable when you're:

a.) Trailering (I'm assuming a loose coil tied down to the tramp would work?)

b.) Storing the boat on land with the mast up

Great advice on here...

Trailering I coil the shrouds and clip them to the center tramp lacing with a large carabiner that I use to clip my water bottle down when out sailing. The forestay (since it's loose on one end) gets coiled and put into the halyard pocket on the tramp.

On land with the mast up, you don't really have a lot of options... Curious to hear what others do. FWIW at the local marina there are 5-6 H16's in dry storage and none of them appear to have done anything special to the standing rigging either.

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1978 H16 - "Banana Split"
2004 Hobie Bravo - "Cheap Thrills" [Sold]

I keep my boat mast up on the beach all summer. I like to keep the standing rig pretty tight as a general rule because I don't like the mast flopping around in variable winds. I don't know if that prolongs the life of the rigging or just keeps things quieter. By the same token I have taken to wrapping the main halyard around the mast a few times before cleating it off when storing so the neighbors hear less clanging at night. It just makes a spiral up the mast that you have to remember to undo before hooking on the head of the main next time. I don't see how these things can hurt.

I must admit that I don't adjust my mast rake very often. Serious racers would probably keep a looser rig than I.

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1989 H16
2009 H16 squaretop

Rather than forking out for new shrouds you could double up with some Dyneema rope.
I used Dyneema when I needed to dury rig after a shroud failure.

I live in the UK and Hobie parts are not so common or if available cost a great deal in comparison to US prices so one generally get shrouds and forestays hand made to spec but this requires a trip to a chandler, or remote ordering.
While waiting I took the chance and used Dyneema rope, it help up very well indeed. You take your chances.

Check out the following 3/8 steel braid breaking point ~14400lbs / Dyneema 3/8 18350lbs load:
[youtube2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDJ3QjvRZT0[/youtube2]

SRG

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Hobie 14 Turbo (~1979)
Hobie 16 Carumba (1983)
Hobie 16 1990 (storm damaged)
Hobie 16 1996 (my latest)