Aftermarket Sails ?

A significant part of the AI's charm for me is the boomless, unstayed, roller-reefed sail.

OTOH, coming from windsurfing, I see the Hobie implementation as kind of crude - Dacron, for starters... I didn't even know they still made the stuff.... (just kidding...)

Seriously, though, might there low-hanging fruit here for sail makers ?

Or are there reasons why a boomless, unstayed, roller-reefed sail cannot perform much better than the one on the AI ?

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Pete, I have absolutely no doubt that any of the gun sailmakers could produce a superior high performance sail for the Hobie Islands. Similarly, I have no doubt that a streamlined carbon-fibre version of the hulls would result in superior performance. Could Hobie blend the technical brilliance of the Tri-foiler with the versatility of the Islands? No doubt.

But... could any of these improvements be made available for the same price? Of course not.

Are the Islands supposed to be world-shattering performance beasts? Nope. What they ARE though, are uniquely versatile platforms designed to meet the expectations of a wide range of customers.

It would be good to hear of anyone getting a high performance mylar sail for their Island, and to find out about the trade-offs between performance, furling and longevity, compared to the standard sail.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I would not be so sure.

Just materials alone...

To wit, Ezzy's "TIger" line of sails - vastly better material, more needlework, and some downhaul hardware that is not visible: $620
viz: http://foxwatersports.com/2015_ezzy_tiger

OTOH, Hobie's sail is $629 in Dacron: http://shop.mariner-sails.com/Sail-Papa ... egoryId=-1

Of course the Ezzy design is also more sophisticated - but I do not want to speak to that because:

• I know next to nothing about sail design
  .
• Quality of materials aside, my original question was whether-or-not it was possible to come up with a better design given the constraints of roller furling and no boom.
  My gut says "No", but I'd feel better hearing it from somebody who has something to base it upon.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

I've wondered the same Pete. My 3yr old sail is showing signs of wear and I will probably replace it in the next two years. If I can get a sail maker to design a sail as color coordinated and estheticly pleasing as the original I might explore the possibility.

When I had the sailmaker create a jib recently, the corners of the sail were reinforced much more than anticipated. I worried about it's ability to be furled around the main but soon realized this was not an issue and expect it to hold up better than the main has over time. My limited understanding is that the cut of the sail and the camber created will likely tweet performance. But I rather doubt if we would perceive enough difference to want to change the appearances of the boat too much. I love what Hobie did with color design.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Speaking as one who had a quiver of Ezzy sails for something like 10 years - before retirement from windsurfing...... One (only half facetious) criticism I hear about the Ezzy products is that you get tired of looking at them.... they are so durable and long-lasting.

That being said, I have also heard that, for given materials, a sail's lifetime can be expressed in number of hours exposure to UV at a given latitude..... Given the same materials, somebody in the Carribbean will see shorter sail lifetimes than somebody in New Jersey...... In fact, I know a guy who bought a few used sails that had been rental sails in the Carribbean. They looked great... but were basically at the end of their service lives and he wound up replacing them that same season as they developed rips one-after-the-other.

FWIW, I have Googled quite a bit and nobody seems to be offering third-party AI sails.

It could be a product maturity thing - and once there are enough AIs out there whose sails are wearing out, maybe somebody will step in to the niche.

Right now AeroTech is offering vertical-batten SUP sails (http://tinyurl.com/on2ccbl) so it's not like it's virgin technology.

The sail's cut is so simple (seems like it is dead flat) that I was even thinking about trying one myself using Tyvek and maybe adding a half meter or a meter by extending the roach a few inches.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

There are quite a few windsurfer guys that go where I launch, I've been eyeing some of their sails, some of the guys are running sails bigger than my TI's mainsail. It's my understanding the mast on the TI is a modified carbon windsurfer mast. It seems to me all the advanced tech is going into the windsurfer sails, whereas the majority of the regular sail tech is still stuck in the 60's (because of the crazy one design rules).
It would be really interesting to throw a windsurfer sail on a TI and see what it does, you could probably leave the brace on, and just control the sail from the back of the brace.
If you could add a quick release connection to the brace (where the windsurfer usually hangs on) where you just pop it up and it comes off, you could concievably release the brace, then furl the loose sail around the mast. Obviously there would be no partial furling, so you would need to be careful what conditions you go out in. Actually once you remove the brace, you could probably run the sail half furled with out the brace.
I've watched the guys putting their mast in and rigging up on shore, their masts look just like ours.

Unfortunately I'm not in windsurfing, and really don't know anybody to borrow one and try it out. (designing the quickly removable brace would be the easiest part of the design).

Getting the windsurfer so it's can conform from left side to right side camber (left tack/right tack)easily might also be a issue, or maybe not ( I don't know enough about windsurfer sails). If it works like my wing sails, getting the correct asymmetric shape for left tack/ right tack is the easiest aspect of the whole design (on wing sails anyway), because the sails naturally create a vacuum on one side and pressure on the other so you just let nature take it's course to create the asymmetric foil shape.

I'm probably all wet and none of this will work at all, but it sure would be fun trying.

Interesting discussion though.
FE

I would have no problem giving up the boomless, quick reef features for a sail with a little more power for light wind days.
I also miss a boom, it allows much more sail shape control. A windsurfer rig, even with the boom might be interesting.

I would also like a sail that doesn't flog the back seat occupant on a tandem when tacking. My wife is ready to wear her bike helmet some days!

Windsurfers had no issue having a bunch of sails for different conditions, I would like to have some options too.

After tearing the clew of my stock sail off I ordered a replacement. The sail I ordered is all white so all the panels will stretch equally over the course of time. With the old plastic panel the sail went through all sorts of weird shapes as time passed. Replacing a stock sail is $500. I paid $700 for the custom work. Not a cheaper option but an option none the less. And one that should outlast and perform better over the long run than the original sail.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/136243996@N05/G2JHdE
https://www.flickr.com/gp/136243996@N05/xP95j1
https://www.flickr.com/gp/136243996@N05/xP95j1

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2012 Mango Tandem Island
and assortment of mods.

If I were doing that I would specify mylar instead of dacron. Dacron bags/gets blown out over time, mylar does not.

I would also specify scrim (which is already used) for the window. Heavier, and compromises visibility somewhat, but vastly more durable.

It's something of a mystery to me why Hobie uses dacron in the first place - and charges top-of-the-line mylar prices for it.

Only thing I can think of is noise. Mylar makes a *lot* of noise when flogging - maybe enough to be a deal-breaker in the AI application.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

The clear panel is not required, when you order a new sail. I never really used it as I would always look under the sail to be sure I have a clear water. So not really needed. At least for me.

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2012 Mango Tandem Island
and assortment of mods.