Pros and Cons: Torqeedo Ultralight 403 Electric

......... First, I don't know what you mean about sag unless you mean the slowing down due to loss of voltage. It is a fact that lithium batteries go full force until they die and others slow as the voltage drops. It's also from experience. Second, the Minnkota is built for power while the Torqeedo is built for speed ........ Totally different animals and that is also a fact. Guys up here that have used both on the back of yaks will tell you that the Torqeedo is faster but the Minnkota recovers power faster when hit by a wave ........ That is experience.

Lastly ........ Once you get a little experience with both on a yak ....... Well ........ I've found a little ketchup makes facts taste better ..... Lol

First..sag...yes voltage drop, voltage sag etc. Only the most experienced in the vast field of electric trolling motors (cough cough) could know of such a thing. I mean what would i know about Lithium when i have boxes of them for my RC boats, jets and helicipters?..and what could i possibly know about a lead acid trolling motor battery and trolling motors after owning and operating so many over the years ? How many lithium's you own right now? How many Lithium chargers do you have and are they programmable like mine or are they plug in/walk away like the dummy ones you get with the Torqeedo ? How many Lithium's can you charge at once with your charger ? Do you charge in series or parallel ?


Second....The faster bit is debatable. If all the Pro Angler will do is 4 or 4.5 when loaded then if you are counting peanuts yes maybe its faster . Other reports i have seen say 4 to 4.5 on the PA Pretty sure my Tracker can pull 4mph trolling. 4mph is nothing!
What i'm telling you is battery for battery at WOT there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. Measurable yes, meaningful in real world use outside weight and footprint ...no....again..at WOT.


No experience required to figure numbers. At WOT that thing is done in 40 minutes on a heavy PA and at 4mph that puts me at 3 miles per battery. From "experience" i can tell you without a doubt that my Motoguide and its battery will do that on speed 5 without much sag so unless you diddle around at 1mph all day the lithium isn't all that outside its footprint and weight WHICH btw is why they are used in RC applications coupled with the high voltage
All the "experience" in the world cant change this simple truth of the matter!
Pass the ketchup please!

Just to clarify so the Torqeedo fans don't have a coronary. I'm in NO WAY saying a lead acid battery and Minnkota is as good as Torqeedo for a Kayak application . If that was the case i wouldnt have a Torqeedo. What i'm saying is the Torqeedo is actually much better! You see, you cant carry three full size lead acid batteries in your yak if you want to do a 12 mile round trip and get half way there before half the day is over.. it will sink!
You can carry three Torqeedo batteries though, no problem but you WILL pay for them...trust me you will...and it will take a minimum of 3 to do it unless you want to burn up the entire day comuting instead of fishing !..

Bwhahaha ......... Loved your response ............ all good bro

Some added pics....inside the swivel bracket/drum you can see what i did to set the trim angle and tilt limit.
Also, check out my new 1003 battery...18ah, with 5 volt USB for my phone and camera.....Sweeeeeet !
BTW, that is the new 1147 battery with a little more capacity , charges faster and the USB.
Going to cut the mounting legs off here in a minute ...

OK, This is my now experienced review of the Torqeedo 403 on a PA 14.
First i must start by eating crow here. Earlier in this thread i made the comment ( at the time with very minimal use) that the Torqeedo is mainly efficient in that it is so lightweight and small rather than actual distance achieved at a respectable MPH vs a large AH lead acid marine battery and a standard trolling motor...boy was i dead wrong....sorry MM...I'll have my Ketchup with fries...

So on to my review here...

As posted earlier i purchased the extra 1003 battery thinking i would absolutely have to have it as far as i was planning to go up the creeks i fish at a respectable pace...around 7 miles in and seven miles out from launch with my main fishing grounds being the last 2 1/2 miles or so with some added back and forth there at my different spots ...
I'm thinking at the time i will shoot for 3 to 4 mph and hope it doesn't eat battery to quick. I'm talking fully loaded PA here + me at 280...thats loaded !
So anyway, i get to the launch, get in the water and head out...i set the mph at 3.5 and noticed it was only eating around 128 watts...thats it !...continued this pace all the way up..fished my spots all day carefully managing the throttle and made it all the way back to launch and still had 13% of the stock battery.....GPS read 16 miles that day...16 MILES at 3.5 mph...i couldn't freaking believe it!...and that was with a few burst as well along the way.

Second trip out...
Same route , went all the way up...skunked...came all the way back to launch around noon and a friend showed up with his PA 12 with a Torqeedo and wanted me to ride all the way back up with him again. I went daylight until dark only this time playing around a lot as in using lots of juice and still came home with 26% of the 1003 battery and 10% of the stock battery. I didn't keep track of miles but it was daylight until dark moving because there wasn't any catching going on !

Third trip...up and back again on just stock battery with 23% left on it...

So now to the 1003 battery.....why the battery switch does this is beside me...but the best i can get out of my stock 403 battery is around 5.6 to 5.7 on glass water with fully loaded PA 14.
The 1003 battery easily pushes me above 6 mph and makes the motor accelerate harder . You can really tell the difference in the last 30% of the throttle range....bellow that seems about the same as the 403 battery. Knowing what i know about brushless motors and LIPO's ( which these aren't) all i can figure is the 403 battery doesn't really put out what the motor wants...( think to low of a c rating on a lipo battery for motor application)... but who knows...it does what it does though...no doubt about it...same voltage, larger AH shouldn't really help the motor so i'm leaning towards software in the battery itself making the difference... who knows but its no doubt faster and more powerful once you hit that 70% throttle mark and above.

So all that said, i'm still in disbelief at the range of this system...its nothing short of incredible...under rated if you ask me....awesome isn't the word here!

So anyway....thats my Ketchup review...over and out!....will add some pics later...

...no no no .... That's ketchup with your crow ........ Lol

That 1003 battery is more powerful meaning more amp hours but they are both 29.6 amps I think so I don't understand why you would get more speed but you would definitely get more distance.

Just glad you get the same great results I get.

Oh ........ BTW ........ I've recently been honored by being asked to join the Torqeedo Pro Staff.

ok, ketchup with my crow....

Not sure why the battery does this MM but rest assured it does. Like a little turbo in that sucker when you stick the juice to it. Normally, you are correct..with same voltage, more AH it should only help range unless the stock battery is underrated for the motor....(which i doubt is the case) but you never know.
All i can figure is maybe crossing the 403 and 1003 battery's which do have software in them is the case. Its so noticeable that it kind of makes you wonder if you should be loading the little motor that much but you don't notice any difference at all under that 70% mark...strange but i like it...maybe a little to much...

I posted this to the Torqeedo Pro Team to see if the team and engineering can explain it ........ Thanks for pointing this out ......., always looking for more speed

Few pics from voyages...

Big Blue caught on 8lb mono...he hit a 2" grub i was bouncing over some structure. Drug me around for 10 minutes striping my line out...fun fun.. ..

Wow your speed and range is way beyond the published ratings on their web site. I would assume a PA 14 to be a little faster than my larger TI. I simply have no desire to putt along at 2 mph with the torqeedo for long distance especially since I can pedal faster and further with just the mirage drive with minimal effort. My perfect cruise speed would be around 6mph (actually 8-10 would be preferred), I don't mind peddling at the same time (your legs aren't doing anything anyway so you might as well use them (lol)). According to the published specs this would give me about 20 minutes of power. I'm just guessing here but I'm assuming the 403 to be more designed for smaller yaks where a big TI is a little much for that small motor. I would entertain twin 403's with one on each side of the boat for balance. Yes I could go to a 1003 but that unit is pretty big and heavy (bigger and heavier than my current Honda's). Last year there was a windrider 17 entered in the Everglades challenge 300 mile race in class 6 with a 1003 torqeedo installed along with some massive solar panels, I wonder how he did (the race got messed up and cancelled so I never heard more). The reason I was interested is his WR17 is very similar to my TI (about the same sail area and size). Actually I talked to the guy before the race and he described everything he had, I didn't say anything but doing the calculations in my head I figured he would be dead as a door nail in about 40 miles leaving 260 miles to go.
Reading about your results is giving me new hope (I've been a huge torqeedo fan for a long time and they keep getting better all the time, hopefully in 5-10 yrs they will be able to do what I want), if I ever get access to and can afford a torqeedo (or 2) I would love to design something that can average 8-10 mph with a 300 mile range (my current average speed and range (W/3gal fuel)). Until that day comes I'm kind of stuck with what I currently have (hybrid gas). Gas engines are not allowed in the EC in class 6 (class 6 is experimental class, which is my only interest....)
FE

Hey guys,
I'm brand new to this forum, and I joined in order to respond to this thread, about the Torqeedo 403.
I've owned one for just about 1 year, and I would like to let folks know what could happen if you run into problems and seek warranty repair. I got this error which indicated motor overcurrent. I notified Torqeedo and they said to send it to a repair place over at Pompano Beach Florida, which I did. They opened it up and there was water in the motor. They called me and said that Torqeedo would not warranty repair it, because they think it hit something because there were some scratches on the front of the motor. There are scratches but nothing that would allow water to get in. They said that any time you hit something (which I have not hit anything that would cause this sort of problem) that it causes the O ring seal to leak(it's a seal around the body of the motor sealing the front and back halves at the connection point. SO be aware. Don't hit anything at all with this motor that would cause any minor scratches on the front of the motor. If the O ring decides to leak and you have scratches on the motor, then they will try to get out of covering the repair. In my case the repair is close to $750 bucks more or less.

Just a statement about durability.........you know you can buy a cheap trolling motor at Wal-mart and abuse it, and it will last for decades. I have treated this motor with kid gloves, and you would think that a $1800 motor would be very very durable. Well think again.
Feel free to contact me if you have questions.
[email protected]
Tom

Actually its not way beyond the published ratings . I will take pics next time of the controller and what it reads and you will see. All it takes is 120ish watts to push me 3.5 to above 4mph sometimes. A mere 89 watts will get you a solid 3 mph. I made the same mistake you are making in assuming my pa14 with 400lbs on it would be a big load for the little motor and it would eat power...i was way off...don't let the published ratings throw you off. Its that 5 to 6 mph mark that eats power like crazy and more than Triples your watts to get it.
Telling you...did 16 miles that day on just the stock battery....believe it !.....

Oh and i'm calling BS on people being able to peddle the PA 14 as fast as these motors push them! If you do, you are stripped down to no weight and will be sprinting on top of the yak to do it..and peddling along with the motor doesn't help speed much if anything at all . There is a reason my Mirage drive rides in the tank well.....been there, tried it and i'm calling BS !....

I think the service guys over simplified their investigation and response. We have not seen that to be an issue and in motor testing, ran them into a boat ramp a bunch to test the drive well mount system. We did not have that problem. I suspect you could have cut the o-ring with fishing line which lead to a leak/failure. Much more likely. That issue has been resolved with a re-designed housing.

We have had VERY few issues with Torqeedo / evolve motors in the past couple of years. Much improved.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)