Drive Unit, Spare Parts, and Tips

Naaa, even though I moan and groan when things break, look at what I go kayaking in the majority of the time - a Mirage. Hobie is always working to make their production and products better and they do stand behind their products - you have not made a mistake. I still think the Mirage pedal boats are going to be very popular in the future.

As for parts? You need to get parts geared toward your own kayak. I keep plastic ties and a small spool of cable in case my rudder line breaks again. You'll have to look inside your hull to see how yours is connected. I carry a spare drive unit with me on every trip, so in most cases, if something breaks, I can be pedaling again in about 2 minutes. I carry spare chain cables, fin masts, nuts, cotter pins, etc, for each of the two different model drive units. It is a pain but I value both of the drive units.

Tool wise, I carry all the necessary set screw wrenches, small hammer, vice grips, pliers, wrenches, to fix anything in the field. The tools and parts go in a dry bag in the hatch before I leave on each trip.

As a disclaimer, please realize that some of my trips are a dozen miles into the swamp, and then a dozen miles to get back out. I can pedal all day and never see a motor boat, hence, I need to be able to make quick fixes because there won't be much in way of help.

A lot of times, if something breaks, it is just a matter of quickly swapping out drive units and I'll fix the broken one at home later. Sometimes, like the other night, I really needed to have the turbofin drive unit working, so rather than swap out drive units, I had the parts and tools to fix it while I drifted - thankfully the waves were nothing but ripples.

What I'm saying is that you may be in a populated area when you can easily paddle to the beach if something broke, then call the wife, and ten minutes later, you are on your way home. You may only go out once a month for an hour or two. The amount of precautions you take is entirely up to you and your needs and comfort level. I do a lot of kayaking in the Gulf of Mexico and based on actual experiences, I've learned to carry parts and tools that will enable me to keep enjoying the day. May your experiences in your new Hobie kayaks be good ones!

First off let me say that for what ever reason, I could not get logged back in using my original name so I had to create a new 1 one number off.

Anyway, Rnykstr, I really appreciate the info. It appears that you are pushing the boundries for alot of the rest of us (old farts like me) and in doing so are providing invaluable feedback to not only the company, but to the rest of us. I know Hobie makes quality stuff (I still have fond memories of my hobie seaboard that took a broadside rail bashing wipeout into the steel pier with only a slight scratching. Man that was one tough board! Wish I still had it) and I know that this mirage drive is fairly new so I guess some kinks still need to be worked out. I haven't even gotten mine home, so I don't have "the stoke" going yet. That makes it easy to second guess yourself I suppose. I just can't wait to try the darn things out! It's just too cold for me here right now, SOOOO I'll wait. BUT as I said before, I would like to be sure I have EVERYTHING I might need to make our maiden trip a success so that we can get that "stoke" fired up!!

Took the Outback out for the second time this year and for the second time this year, it broke. Grrrrr.

I turned around due to some choppy confused sea conditions because I saw the idler cable looked like it was about to break at the crimp during my pre-trip inspection. I've got a lot of spare parts, but not a idler cable. I didn't want to risk a breakage in rough seas next to rocks - I wisely chickened out by turning around to kayak in a calmer inland area.

On the way back, I felt that dreaded slip and loss of control - figured it was the cable that broke but it was the composite sproket. The sproket broke right where the steel mast is inserted, and I was not putting much pressure on the pedals. It was a clean break right down the part seam.



The same thing happened six months ago just before a planned kayak race that I was so excited about. Interestingly enough, I have been getting excited about doing a race in Tallahassee in two weeks but sprockets are not something I carry a spare of. It must be an omen. The Gods seem to not want me to use the Outback in a kayak race.

In my personal opinion, Hobie has SERIOUS design flaws or manufacturing problems with the Mirage Drive Unit. Spockets, drums, and cables keep breaking when used in conjunction with the Turbo Flippers.

I'd buy another drive unit so I can have some peace of mind when going out on a kayak trip using the Outback, but I just did that a little over a year and a half ago.

I used to kayak using the Outback almost 100 percent of the time. Last year, I only used the Outback 50 percent of the time. With the way I feel right now, my Outback can gather dust. I'm going back to using a paddle kayak - no cables have broken on that in 6 years and not a single part has needed to be replaced. Even better, I don't have to worry about hitting hidden stumps.

I am pretty sure this is an old issue coming up...

You can see that that set secrew is at the high point close to the mast hole. It has appeared as a cause of failures. We corrected the location of the set srcew last year, but there are a bunch out there like this. There is no apparent issue for standard fins, but on ST Turbos... the higher screw location seems to reduce the material strength. It is also possible that the mast would not be fully seated if the set screw engages the mast slot (mis-matched masts). Current ST Turbo kits come with masts with a couple slots to help match diffent sprockets.



Over-all sprocket failures continue to be a VERY small percentage of production.

We are happy to replace sprockets for those concerned about it.

I have already been asking the engineers to take a closer look at the sprockets again. We are reviewing materials, production techniques etc. It is also possible that a loc-tite material used on a set screw is degrading the plastic to failure. There are many things that could cause issues other than design, but we will also consider that as well.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Also good Idea not to over-tighten the set screw.

_________________
---A quaint little drinking village with a fishing problem---

You are absolutely right. Based upon how many times sprocket and pulley shafts have come loose on me, it is also a good idea not to under-tighten the set screw. Back in the days of metal against metal, you tightened a set screw down tight and didn't worry.

The new replacement sprocket that just broke was a little over six months old and it was suggested back then to be careful about over tightening the set screw. I was careful about finding the flat face of the mast and did not over tighten it the set screw.

Something to consider is on the old drive units, if the tip of the mast caught a stump, the worse case resulted in a bent sprocket mast which could be straightened out in a vice later. If you catch a stump or something underwater with the newer drive units, it is a metal sprocket mast versus plastic. If the plastic doesn't break instantly, in a damaged state, it will likely break upon heavy stress, such as turbo fin use. Who knows, maybe when I let others demo my kayak, they might have hit something.

The designers at Hobie need to go back to metal mast to metal sprocket and it would be real nice if it incorportated a quick release mast system so if you hit an under water obstacle and bent the mast shaft, you can quickly replace it. If you want to go from turbo fin to regular fin, with a quick release system, that would be a very good selling point for the Mirage kayaks.

The first time I swapped out my regular fins with turbo fins, it took half an hour to install them because nothing seemed to fit right and the instructions were pitiful. To this day, the rubber fins still do not line up with the chain cables and there is actually a gap between the fin and the sprocket guard. The sprocket guard has a notch for the rubber fin to fit up into. This gap causes lower performance. It is all strictly bad design or shoddy manufacturing. I'll have to check out the drive units on the newer models to see if these issues have been addressed.

Hobie can't prevent the accidents of hitting obstacles in shallow waters, but thay can design the drive unit to be user friendly so when something does happen, it can be quickly fixed.

Ya I have the turbo fins also & noticed the same thing. Its like the masts are to long or something. Fin wont push all the way up into the slot.

_________________
---A quaint little drinking village with a fishing problem---

I put in a brand new sprocket shaft six months ago. Back then, I noticed the shaft was not very smooth and couldn't believe I had paid for it considering the shape it was in.

Today I removed the broken sprocket and it required removing the sprocket shaft. The shaft had a considerable amount of rust on it and it was not just cosmetic. After removing the rust, here is a photo of how it is beginning to pit. Let me ask a question - is this normal wear for 6 months?

Exactly. I actually thought about grinding down the mast so it would fit more properly but decided against it.

I have experienced some issues with turbo fin masts. Initial issues not attributable to Mirage unit per se were a consequence of the dealer installing the turbo masts such that the set screw did not engage the machined slot. Of course, the masts came out of the sprocket unit under way but the problem quickly remedied in each instance as I has a few tools on board. My tool kit includes:

1. Snap ring pliers.
2. Allen wrench.
3. Combo nut/ screw driver.
4. Small crescent wrench.
5. Heavy duty clear duct tape.
6. Original fins and mast, spare turbo mast and 2 sprockets.

Now I will be adding spare chains, cables etc. per Aloha Dan's suggested spares.

On Monday I was out in the GOM and experienced what I first thought was a mast come loose. However, when I pulled the unit I discovered that the leading mast had sheared cleanly along the edge of the machined slot. This was a big deal because about 1/2 inch of broken shaft remained in the drive unit. This meant 1) I could not mount the stock fins I had on board as spares, and 2) it was a long darn paddle home in the Adventure against wind and current.

BTW, I did not hit a submerged object (never have, knock on wood) and always insert/remove the drive unit in several feet of water.

I am very glad this happened midday and I was only a few miles from shore (but still 6 miles from the car). Had it been late afternoon in Everglades National Park or the lower end of the Black River it would have meant a looooong after dark return in a remote area. Had there been cooler, fishing tackle, rod holders, fluids, GPS, sonar etc. on board it would have been a 10 mile paddling nightmare. Not fun.

When I reached home I took photos of the unit and sent them off to Matt Miller and my dealer. This was clearly an example of metal fatigue. Matt responded immediately and sent 2 new masts and sprockets by 2 day air and I was back on the water today with no problems.

Like Rynkster, I am a pretty fit cyclist and can load up the peddles for hours at a time. As this was a clean break along a machined surface I suspect it was a case of a stress fracture and was, hopefully, totally atypical.

Until confidence returns in durability of the Mirage Drive I am going to cut back on the speed to stress the drive unit less. Per the GPS I've been averaging about 5.48 MPH cruise speed in the A. About 3/4 MPH slower into the wind and current and about 1 MPH faster with. I think pulling back to the 4.75 range will increase durability (but spoil some of the fun).

BTW, when I'm not fishing and just exercising in calm water I've found that the boat is a tick faster with all the non-pilot weight (tools, wheels, extra water etc.) forward to hold the bow down a bit. This would probably make the boat a bit piggish though running down wave but haven't tried that out yet in anything other than chop and a small few wakes.

Thanks to Roadrunner, I found a sweet spot for fin tension/fin depth in outhaul. My turbo fins are set at a max depth of 1/8" into the outhaul. Tighter/deeper is slower IMHO, and feels like you're mixxing concrete.

I'm fiddling with a simple linkage to steer the boat with either my left foot or a knee. This is a heavy kayak and not the slickest paddling boat in wind and waves. If I can get it to function well, I think hands-free steering will be a boon to paddling and drift fishing.

Has anyone converted an Adventure to a conventional kick-up rudder? Do you have a kit to recommend?

Thanks to all for your comments.

Sorry to hear about your woes Dennis. Been there many times. Sounds like you need a spare drive unit - not just spare parts. Having a spare drive unit is the only way to kayak in a mirage if you want to make sure you can get back by pedal power.

Naples could you elaborate on this a bit.

"Thanks to Roadrunner, I found a sweet spot for fin tension/fin depth in outhaul. My turbo fins are set at a max depth of 1/8" into the outhaul. Tighter/deeper is slower IMHO, and feels like you're mixxing concrete. "

I just received and installed my turbo fins and interested in your adjustment comment. I have the newer drive unit and with the adjustment screw tightened up all the way the fin fits perfectly up in the sprocket area. But it sounds like this is not the best performance adjustment. Where are you measuring the 1/8" from. Are you on the tight end or the loose end of the adjustment range?

The newer Turbos are set up a little different than the originals, so that old guideline will not apply to our new sets. From what I can see, the new Turbos are different in three ways:

The biggest change affecting performance is the one you can't see. The new mast seems to be about 1/4 inch shorter. This allows the fins to tuck up into the sprocket guard/outhaul assemblies. Those who have criticised Hobie for their "poor fitting fins will be thrilled! Although this looks neater, it reduces the working surface of the fin slightly. It also reduces the clew tension, effectively de-powering the fin somewhat. Finally, by shortening the working radius (remembering that most of the driving force is accomplished near the tip), there is marginally less potential torque available.

My top speed with the newest fins had dropped by .3 MPH. It could be that I was having a bad day or maybe the clew adjustment can be further improved -- I'll re-check this next month when the lake re-opens. On the other hand, if true, it'll be harder for all you super-peddlers to overstress the drive!

To go along with the new tucked in fin, the chain notch has been widened to accommodate the fit. This wider notch is the easiest way to identify the new fins. Although there is no real functional advantage here, it looks more centered.

Finally, Hobie went back to the clevis pin and retainer rather than the earlier threaded outhaul attachment. This is great because it's no longer possible to screw up your installation by over-tightening the outhaul mounting screw!

So Greg, the 1/8 inch position that Dennis suggested does not apply to your new fins, or more specifically, your new masts. Ideally you want to tighten the clew adjustment so that the fin has about 1/4" expansion/retraction along the mast when slack. This allows the fin to "wind up" the mast as it twists. Without this slack, you get Dennis' "cement mixer"; too much slack and you lose thrust. A little experimentation will find the right place for you.

We need to determine the cause of the failure before jumping to conclusions.

History: We had no notable sprocket failures early on. We have experienced failures now, but primarily with ST Turbo fins which just became available in the last year. We had a problem with a drilling fixture in the last couple of years that drilled the hole for the set screw. That higher position (as shown in my post above) has weakened the sprockets. In addition, the location also made the set screw hole shallower... less threads engaged. That fixture was corrected last year. There are a lot of sprockets out there with the incorrect set screw location. Those should not be a problem with standard fins, but when using the ST Turbo it may be. I have offered replacement sprockets for anyone who is concerned.

I think Rynkster's sprocket failure is typical of the incorrect set screw location.

When the sprocket is built correctly you can bend over a mast without failing the sprocket. I have asked the engineers to take a close look once again. I agree that the part should be bullet proof over light weight. We will make changes if it is actually required.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Rusty shaft.

Wow... that is nasty. We should replace for you. We get materials from many different suppliers these days. I assume that some shafts and masts are coming in at varying grades of stainless. I have heard that the mast material is getting hard to source. We are just making so many boats these days... we are flying through raw materials.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)