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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:53 am
Posts: 232
Location: Storm Lake, IA
Truthfully, I can't believe you're wasting my time even posting this, it is so absurd. Why don't you want him to spend 10 min. fixing this?
I would fix it for peace of mind if for nothing else. Mr. sail non-worrying guy.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:04 am 
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MBounds is one of the most experienced sailors in these forums... Hobie 16 also 14, 17 plus others and offers decades of sailing and racing experience. Also the Hotline editor for... well over a decade or is it two. Repair and maintenance writer. Forum supporter (Note his forum rank: Hobie Approved Guru and has a post count second only to me). US sailing PRO... he knows this stuff.

I think in this case he is being cautious, these guys put a lot of stress on the equipment and a failed jib can make you miss a race or lose a regatta... or just make it hard getting back to the beach.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
mmiller wrote:
MBounds is one of the most experienced sailors in these forums... Hobie 16 also 14, 17 plus others and offers decades of sailing and racing experience. Also the Hotline editor for... well over a decade or is it two. Repair and maintenance writer. Forum supporter (Note his forum rank: Hobie Approved Guru and has a post count second only to me). US sailing PRO... he knows this stuff.

I think in this case he is being cautious, these guys put a lot of stress on the equipment and a failed jib can make you miss a race or lose a regatta... or just make it hard getting back to the beach.


Perhaps he is only being overly cautious...but it isn't even a broken stitch...it is a dropped stitch. Even he admitted he knew the sail was held together with adhesive as well as the stitches. Apparently, though, the concept of lock stitch is beyond his (no doubt extensive on anything other than sailmaking) knowledge base. I suspect he is unfamiliar with the work of some sailmakers who eschew stitching altogether since modern adhesives are adequate--especially for tiny sails like the Hobie jib.

I admit to having no awe of others' expertise-especially when they espouse opinion contrary to my experience/expertise. And to top it off, he was so impolitic as to call my expertise "foolish".

As I said before, sail SHAPE is much more important than a dropped stitch...to waste everyones time (and money) taking a sail to a sailmaker to have stitches placed on top of a perfectly good seam is beyond caution. The original poster had a NEW sail that he wondered if it was "OK" and instead got all sorts of people telling him to waste his time and money...that ain't right.

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SeaRail 19
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
tpdavis473 wrote:
Perhaps he is only being overly cautious...but it isn't even a broken stitch...it is a dropped stitch. Even he admitted he knew the sail was held together with adhesive as well as the stitches. Apparently, though, the concept of lock stitch is beyond his (no doubt extensive on anything other than sailmaking) knowledge base. I suspect he is unfamiliar with the work of some sailmakers who eschew stitching altogether since modern adhesives are adequate--especially for tiny sails like the Hobie jib.

I admit to having no awe of others' expertise-especially when they espouse opinion contrary to my experience/expertise. And to top it off, he was so impolitic as to call my expertise "foolish".

This is not a "dropped stitch":
Image

That is a broken thread (actually broken in two places).

I know perfectly well how a sewing machine works and what a lock stitch is.

The seam tape adhesive on Dacron Hobie sails is there only to facilitate the stitching - to hold the material together in alignment until the sail is stitched. It's not structural.

A Hobie 16 is not a Getaway and is not an AI. There's been a body of knowledge built up over the past 40+ years that you haven't been exposed to since you stated "A year ago I was a new cat sailor." You've made a number of posts that illustrate your ignorance of the way a Hobie 16 works:

tpdavis473 wrote:
That's on a batten pocket, right? Looks to be toward the leach. Ignore the loose threads. The batten takes all the loads.
Um, no.

tpdavis473 wrote:
Even if they are holding two pieces of sailcloth together. They see no loads because the batten is tensioning the cloth between the leach and luff (or end of the pocket and the leach if the batten is not full length).
You didn't know that Hobie 16 jib battens were full length?

tpdavis473 wrote:
It's easy enough to add a short line extension to the halyard and cleat normally if he does have the tongs...being a 1975 boat, though, I suspect he has all aluminum and no tongs.
What? A Hobie 16 has always had "tongs" (I assume you mean the halyard latch) and cleating off without latching the halyard is a recipe for pulling the cleat out of the mast.

tpdavis473 wrote:
Personally, I prefer to hook the tack grommet with the Cunningham. Of course, that assumes the boom is fixed to the mast so it doesn't fall out.
A Hobie 16 does not have a gooseneck fixed to the mast. It slides in the mast track. There is no cunningham. Only a downhaul.

tpdavis473 wrote:
I also use a 2:1 on the clew grommet when I have a boom available for a turning block at the end--that way you can pull aft AND down to get both foot and leach tension.
And that's a great recipe for ripping the clew grommet out of the sail, considering that any US-built sail with reef points is 30+ years old now.

tpdavis473 wrote:
I admit to having no awe of others' expertise-especially when they espouse opinion contrary to my experience/expertise.
That pretty much says it all.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:59 am
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what a great thread. this TP Davis guy is pure comedy.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Location: Minneapolis (Apple Valley), Minnesota
Hold on, I might want TP Davis to skipper for me....after racing hobie 18's for 30+ years he might be able to tell me what I have been doing wrong all these years (never mind his one+ year sailing a cat, he might have something to offer, but I doubt it)

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Last edited by NeubaurRL on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:14 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
gino wrote:
what a great thread. this TP Davis guy is pure comedy.
You should have read what transpired behind the scenes. Let's just say that he's spending some quality alone time for now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:28 pm 
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Location: Benicia, CA
MBounds wrote:
gino wrote:
what a great thread. this TP Davis guy is pure comedy.
You should have read what transpired behind the scenes. Let's just say that he's spending some quality alone time for now.

OK, I agree that MBounds is probably the GREATEST GIFT to this forum that there ever was. BUT, let's consider...TPDavis has won the single handed Farralones race-overall, and the multihull version of it in 2 of 2 years that he entered...with sails he designed and made!!....I still say this guy who started this thread would be WASTING HIS MONEY to get these stitches repaired. Consider the source...I know you have; trust somebody who is a PRO (guess what, anyone can get that) or trust somebody who has won races...your choice.

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SeaRail 19
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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:38 pm 
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Oh, sorry, that above was incorrect...that's 2 of 3 years I entered the SHF...the third year I dropped my insulin syringe into the bilge and had to retire since I couldn't find it.

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SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
Well, somebody got let out of their cage. Seems like it didn't have much effect, though.

Congratulations on your SHFR accomplishments. I nearly visited the islands on my Hobie 17 about that same time - but that's a whole 'nuther story.

You left out some details, though. In 2010 (when you were DNF), there were only 6 boats in your division. In 2008 (when you won your division), there were only 5 boats in your division and only 3 finished. That was actually an accomplishment, but in 2007, you were the only boat in your division, so of course you "won."

BTW, the PRO of the Full Crewed Farallone Race in 2012 (when 5 people died in the Low Speed Chase incident) is a personal friend of mine. He was devastated. Being in charge of a sailboat race is not always rainbows and fuzzy bunnies. It carries a lot of responsibility and baggage that most competitors never see. Not everyone is cut out for it, but they are certainly welcome on the RC if they want to see what goes on behind the scenes. I am quick to tell people that being on race committee has made me a far smarter, far better racer.

And I've won a few races myself. 2014 Hobie 17 North Americans
(That was my third time. In just that class.)

Now what were we discussing? Oh, yeah, some missing stitches in a guy's sail from last April. Give it a rest, Thom.


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