Sealing mast, worth it?

Hi all,

Just an update on this. I ended up sealing the mast and it performs just like you all had said. It will turtle eventually, but not for a good 5 minutes or so. I've capsized twice without the bob on and with the sealed mast. The first time was during a race and we had 2 people on board. Boat did turtle but after awhile we were able to get her up. 2nd time capsized was yesterday with 2 other friends. I sent one to the top of the mast to hold the top of the mast up and keep it from turtling (using her lifejacket as the floatation) while her boyfriend and I righted the boat. I'm getting better at righting the boat and jumping on the windward hull to keep it from re-capsizing by shuffling my feet around correctly as she comes up.

Anyways, next time I take the mast down I'm going to put the bob back on until I'm capsizing less often. I know what I'm doing as skipper from FJ/420 collegiate sailing, but now that I've found out that the hobie 16 can capsize in every direction, I end up pushing the boat too hard too often and in the drink.

Long distance catamaran racing has turned out to be very different from short distance dinghy sailing.

Want to see my turtled hobie? Here are the pictures from the race. You'll have to shuffle through them to find my hobie, but I was the only h16 on the racecourse that day. Only other beach cat was a Nacra 5.5 http://www.mcdonaldphoto.com/Sailing/20 ... te-Series/

We weren't the only people in the drink that day though. According to race committee, at least 3 other people ended up falling off keel boats at different parts of the race. So, we were just 40% of the people in the water.

Thanks all for the advice. Great community we have here.

-Evan

Good pictures, and looks like a fun race. There was excellent wind too.....

One suggestion - for your next birthday, replace the mainsheet with a high tech line, like Salsa or BZZZ or Robbline.
A smooth running mainsheet will allow you to sheet out in a hurry when the dreaded capsize is imminent, and may often save you a swim.
I was on 10 mm Robbline, and I am looking at 9 mm... what do others use?

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

This sounds like a risky approach to me - I would not send someone to the top of the mast. Did you have her remove her life jacket? Not a good idea. Or was she trying to "hold" the mast up? Also not a good idea due to the potential to become tangled with the rigging or getting knocked on the head by the mast if it pops out of the water and then comes back down. If she does become tangled and the boat ends up turning turtle, then she gets pulled under. Also, once the boat does come up, now she is roughly 30 feet away from the boat and could easily be separated as it starts to sail away.

sm

Good point Steve.

I guess it all depends on how choppy and windy it is, and local conditions.

My wife and I are fortunate to be strong swimmers, so when we sail H16's, we don't find it scary to have one of us swim out to the tip of the mast, and using the floatation in our bodies/life-jackets, hold the top end of the mast to prevent a turtle.
Of course, we are super careful when it comes time to 'raise' the H16, no one wants to get klonked on the head, whether it be from a mast or the 'hull in the air' as it falls back in the water.

One more thing - we mostly sail in fresh water on an inland body of water.
If we were out at sea, I'd be a whole lot more cautious, especially about the 'sailing away' bit.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

I was instructed by the local hobie dealer to have someone swim to the top of the mast in the event of the capsize to prevent a turtle. He said when he would capsize (of course, when he was younger), he would immediately swim to the top of the mast and bring it to the surface while he pointed it into the wind. Then, he would swim to meet his friend on the hulls and right the boat from there. No taking life jackets off. I was also sure to tell her of the possibility of the mast coming back down to the water while we were righting it, so she kept her hands above her head after it was out of her reach.

I understand the concern of getting tangled though, and I wouldn't have had her do that if I was in saltwater. If I'm in saltwater, since I have to take the mast down anyways to get the boat to the coast, I'll put the bob on no matter what.

So, maybe you have advice on the physics in this case as to why we capsized. We were headed upwind but wanted to return closer to the yacht club so we would have to go downwind. The wind was high and if I stay sheeted in going downwind, the boat will have less power, instead of sheeting out. So, I decided to turn downwind from an upwind beet without letting out the sails assuming it would have less power when we were more downwind. In any case, we ended up in the drink. What's going on in that transition from upwind to downwind which is why we ended up capsizing I'm unsure about. Ideas?

I'm inexperienced, but I'd like to take a shot at this to see how I do

If you go from upwind to downwind while sheeted in, that means you'll pass through a 'beam reach' while still sheeted in. I wonder if that's the point where you tipped over due to the full expanse of sail being 90 deg to the wind?

I'm pretty sure you're right, so to prevent that capsize I should've sheeted out to present less sail area to the wind. Then turned, and once pointed downwind sheeted in very quickly to avoid the capsize?

In the end, after righting the boat, I eventually decided to sail upwind on one tack until we got to the side of the lake where there would be less wind. At that point, with less wind, I sheeted out and went downwind jibing a couple of times until we reached the yacht club.

This is a subject of great debate amongst new Hobie sailors, you are not alone.

We had a long and interesting thread going on the H18 Forum about what to do when racing upwind, you get to the mark, and then turn downwind.
There was a lot of technical talk there, but the concept is the same.
(This was how to set the spinnaker after turning at the mark).

In general, ease your course from upwind to broad reach, releasing the traveler all the way and sheeting out, as you come to 90 degrees to the wind.
Carve your continuous turn, and put your body weight to the back of the H16, hiking out.
Keep turning, until you are at about 135 degrees and 'read' the wind and the chop.
As required, turn downwind during gusts, and release the jib sheet entirely.
if you still find the wind too strong, then you can sheet in the main so as to present less sail surface area to the wind.

Enjoy the jibes.
When you are comfortable with those conditions, see if you want to mount a spinnaker..... and enjoy the swimming!

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

It turns out I'm in the "I need to seal my mast" club. Turtled today, first time ever and it happened very quickly, and I could see bubbles coming up the mast. Uh oh. We (three of us) got the boat righted pretty quickly and water was coming from some old holes where a feeder had been. I had assumed those rivet holes were only through the track but clearly I never looked at them. Having never turtled before, those holes had never been under water.

We were flying. Gusts to 30 and three of us to hold the boat down. I don't think I've ever gone faster.

_________________
'00 H16 #104691
'78 H16 #32692 ex-rental [gone]
Old Holsclaw trailer
My Hobie 16 pages

Is there any benefit to rinsing the inside of the mast out with fresh water before I seal it? I normally sail in brackish or salt water and the water that went in last week was brackish.

_________________
'00 H16 #104691
'78 H16 #32692 ex-rental [gone]
Old Holsclaw trailer
My Hobie 16 pages

I don't see how it would hurt. I think I'd try to find a way to immerse it in fresh water rather than just rinsing it with a hose, it could be more thorough, however more difficult to find a place long enough to put the mast in haha.

I also think it won't make much more of a difference anyways though, the salt water inside of the thing would have dried and left salt behind I suppose, unless I have my chemistry incorrect as the salt is iodized instead of just excess.

I have a 1980 Hobie 16. The last time I went over (~15 years ago), my teenage son and I had no problem righting it. This time (summer, 2022) sailing with my cousin's teenager, we went up on one hull, a gust grabbed my hat, I reached for it, and ... This time was a different story. After a few minutes spent orienting the boat with respect to the wind, we failed to right it. Then a few minutes later I noticed that I had to lean back (exert significant torque) just to keep the mast close to the surface. Clearly, the mast was no longer sealed, although I didn't reach that conclusion immediately while trying to deal with the situation. Eventually a motorboat came along and assisted. Loss of mast sealing is a serious issue and should be checked periodically.

Periodic checks are always good.

Typically, a black mast on a hot day gathers up heat.....
and when we capsize, that mast goes into cool water.
Any tiny hole and the pressure differential as the mast rapidly cools, means water will be 'schlurped' into the mast.

Keep safe

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'