What happens if I fall out of the boat while sailing

I entirely get your point regarding a PLB (or EPIRb or Spot), but doesn't a VHF radio make sense? At half the cost of a PLB, you gain a means of communicating in other than emergency conditions (assuming your group is equally equipped) with the added capability in emergency conditions. Our local marine rescue (government sponsored but manned by volunteers) usually have tall antennae aimed at picking up radio signals from as far away as 30 miles. They even offer a short course in radio etiquette, to qualify for an operator licence).

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

You accept consequences. Me, it is not the way I want to die. Nobody is selling you a PLB or SPOT--your choice. However, for folks wondering if they should have a SPOT/PLB or phone, in a truly life-threatening situation, it is a no-brainer. Get a SPOT/PLB.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

========== what he said

I figure that the chance of a real life-threatening event is small. I also figure that I spend more money on beer, wine and even golf balls than the cost of a spot for a year. I want to do that again next year, so I'm paying for the spot this year....

Best bet may be an SMS because it keeps trying to send until it contacts a tower. In your case, you could have a pre-prepared SMS message that can be sent with a single button push along the lines "In trouble at sea and doing my best to swim for it. Don't send Search and Rescue gondolas. Important to deal alone with consequences of my actions".

You sound like a very good fellow to me daft but I don't agree with you on this one.

daft (I am a bit uncomfortable with that label:)
I beg to differ with the term "money no object rescue". In actual fact, despite the huge numbers thrown about by the media, rescue costs are largely covered by budgeted training and operational costs, and even in some cases, by the use of volunteers. I have no qualms in making full use of emergency services if I need them, after of course taking all the appropriate actions to save myself. I carry a VHF, PLB and mobile phone, plus many different safety devices like flares, sea marker dye, signal mirror, first aid kit, torches, knives, hand compass etc etc, and if all that fails, I would feel zero guilt calling for help.

In my opinion, relying on a mobile phone is not taking safety seriously.

PS. 99/100 says that when you go overboard, conditions are not going to permit you to be " comfortably floating in pfd offshore."

PPS. A good way to focus on safety is to imagine you are taking the stand at the inquest of your passenger, who died during your trip. Think about describing all the things you did to avoid the tragedy. It won't take long before it is easy to focus on what responsible people do prior to going offshore.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

To the people relying on a cell phone to contact emergency services if it all goes pear shaped.

I've got an iphone in a 'Lifeproof' case that I take with me in my PFD. I use it for photos and music. Once the face of the screen gets wet and you are trying to operate it with wet fingers, it does not work as the screen cannot detect the difference between your finger, and the generally wet screen.

Oh and if you plan on removing a non waterproof phone from a waterproof case and hope to keep it dry while you bob around in the water and talk to people....... better think again. Go for a float in your PFD and measure how high above the water your mouth is.

Cheers
Colin

This may be a dumb question but does anyone know if VHF radio is monitored by marine police on inland lakes in the US ?
Where I live in central Texas it would be the Sheriff's department but I suppose they might be monitoring VHF at the dispatch center as well as from boats and vehicles around a lake.

Same question about PLB's ?

I'm hoping to venture out to the coast with the local group after I have more experience but I want to be as safe as possible
for my inland sailing which is usually solo.

I have seen another shortcoming of relying on a smart phone. My iPhone has overheated and shut down a couple of times here in the summer.

Chris

I would think on a large lake w/ police presence, they would monitor VHF channel 16.

SPOT is a private, for-profit company which has satellite monitoring of SPOT devices. SPOT requires that the user sign up for an annual subscription, ca $100/yr , but you can use it to send a variety of messages such as
"I'm OK"
"I need help, not life threatening"
"SOS--life-threatening situation"
The first 2 messages will be sent to 10 people you designate. The 3rd message is distributed to proper authorities in the area of the signal so that they can respond as quickly as possible.
http://www.findmespot.com/en/

PLBs (epirbs) are devices that are monitored by international agencies using American and other satellites. For example,
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/acr-electronics--resqlink-buoyant-personal-locator-beacon--13381207
A PLB signal is an all out call for rescue in a life-threatening situation.

PLBs are considered the most reliable, but SPOT has a very good record.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Ok, for a good reference let's list the options. Feel free to correct and/or add to this list:

VHF Marine Radio
Pros:
Relativity low cost, about $150 for a decent model.
Water resistant, floatable units are available.
Multi-use device, not devoted only to rescue.
Compact handheld units are available with full 5-6 Watt power, attachable to PFD.
Fast rescue if you can contact local Coast Guard unit, Marine Police, or a nearby boat.
With DSC & Integrated GPS: Automated distress signal with GPS coordinates.

Cons:
Limited range, just several miles depending on sending and receiving antenna height, you must carefully determine if range is adequate for your purposes.
You must manually initiate the rescue call if not DSC equipped.
DSC & Integrated GPS models add about $100 to the cost.
You must ensure the battery is always charged.

Cell Phone
Pros:
Almost everyone already has one.
Multi-use device, not devoted only to rescue.
You can call virtually anyone for rescue.
Fast rescue if you can contact local Coast Guard unit, Marine Police, or other local rescue unit.

Cons:
Most cell phones are not water resistant, although you can purchase water resistant enclosures.
Spotty coverage, especially on the water. You can't rely on coverage at time of need.
You must initiate the rescue call, although there are apps for rescue purposes. This may not be easy while in an emergency situation, especially if in the water.
Not specifically designed for marine rescue. Not a serious rescue device.
Although most smartphones have an internal GPS, coordinates are not automatically sent.
You must ensure the battery is always charged.

SEND (SPOT & DeLorme)
Pros:
Very good quality, reliable rescue device, second only to PLB's.
Internal GPS. Coordinates are transmitted automatically.
Excellent two way messaging service compatible with smartphones on the DeLorme units.
Multi-use device other than rescue only.
Lower initial purchase cost for some units (about $150 for SPOT).
Compact units available, attachable to PFD.
Water resistant units are available for marine use.
User replaceable batteries at much lower cost than PLBs.
Excellent coverage, second only to PLBs. Globalstar satellite constellation is arguably less effective than Iridium or COSPAS/SARSAT.
Versatile, can be used for land rescue as well as marine (hiking, cross country skiing, mountain climbing, etc.)
Fully automated rescue signal once initiated.

Cons:
Yearly subscription required (about $150). If you fail to pay the subscription you don't get rescued.
Lower, less reliable transmission power (400mw-1.6 Watts compared to 5 Watts for PLB).
You must ensure the batteries are always good.
Complex, high tech worldwide rescue notification system. It may take somewhat longer for a rescue than an immediate local call via a cell phone or VHF radio.
Does not emit a separate homing signal to help rescue units locate you like a PLB.

PLB (EPIRBs)
Pros:
Ultimate in high tech emergency rescue devices.
Powerful, reliable 5 Watt power transmission directly to two satellites.
Internal GPS. Coordinates are transmitted automatically.
Low orbit satellites have separate Geo tracking in addition to transmitted GPS coordinates as a backup.
High orbit satellites have virtually full earth coverage at all times.
Compact units available, attachable to PFD.
Water resistant, floatable units are available for marine use.
No annual fees, service is free.
Sealed battery, reliable for five years.
Highly reliable, professional rescue device.
Works virtually anywhere in the world (with the appropriate unit).
Versatile, can be used for land rescue as well as marine (hiking, cross country skiing, mountain climbing, etc.).
Fully automated rescue signal once initiated.
Emits a separate homing signal to help rescue units locate you.

Cons:
Higher cost than SPOT, about $250 for the lowest cost model.
Battery needs replacement every five years from an authorized facility (about $100-$150).
Single use device, devoted only to emergency rescue.
Complex, high tech worldwide rescue notification system. It may take somewhat longer for a rescue than an immediate local call via a cell phone or VHF radio.
Low orbit satellites have coverage only every 90 minutes or so.
High orbit satellites have full time coverage but do not have Geo tracking capabilities.

More information here: http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Personal-Locator-Beacon-Reviews.

Make your own decision about which device or devices you wish to use. However I believe that it's clear that the most reliable system is a PLB if your life is on the line.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm for a DSC and GPS equipped VHF radio (I actually already own one myself), I beg to differ with making that your highest priority, given your initial brief that you were looking for a "last resort" rescue solution.

I believe effective range of a 5 watt handheld VHF is more than "a few miles", and is more reasonably likely to be 10 miles at sea level, and longer depending on the height of the aerial on the rescue mob's tower.

This is great, BUT a PLB/EPIRB has NO limit on range, and if you get a GPS equipped one, you position is transmitted with an accuracy of about 5 yards, and the ongoing signal will transmit your changing position as you drift.

So I would tend to place them in the following order (ignoring non emergency use, which I consider a bonus)
1) PLB/EPIRB
2) Spot
3) VHF
3) Cell phone


You must be almost the only person on earth without a working cell phone! I thoroughly recommend you purchase the Navionics chartplotter app (under $20) which alone should justify carrying your phone onboard.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Recent AI-2 owner and first time on the forum. I think a lot depends on the area that you're boating in. I spend most of my boating time on the ocean off Bodega Bay, Ca. Not necessarily on my AI. My choice that I always keep on my Pfd is a DSC GPS enabled handheld floatable VHF radio. It is always on channel16. and in the event of an emergency, a push of the DSC key would broadcast an alert to the CG and every nearby boat that is equipped with a dsc enabled radio giving them the name of my boat and my coordinates. Where I boat, it is the simplest and quickest way to get rescued.
The radio was just over $200. Plus I use it all the time to get weather reports, communicate with others, listen to CG.

Great input. I've updated the list above to reflect your comments about DSC enabled VHF radios.

I couldn't confirm a reliable 10 mile range of a handheld VHF signal, most sources claim about 4 to 7 reliable miles with a handheld unit at sea level transmitting to an 100 foot Coast Guard tower. Ten miles is indeed possible but really pushing the limits. The signal may go that far given the right conditions but for the purposes of selecting a reliable life saving device the best I can say is "several miles". Boats with long, high mounted antennae can go up to around 13-20 miles or more but we're talking about a person in the water with a handheld unit and a very small rubber antenna. The DSC signal does indeed go slightly further than the analog signal but not much more.