AI2 Sail Failing After Less Than 1 Season ?

Bought my AI2 in late summer last year, finally got it in the water in mid-september.

Now it's early June of the following year - which I reckon is considerably less that one season of use.

Here is the status of the sail:

• Edges unraveling... viz: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 1012424626
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• #2 Batten pocket failing... viz: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 2444509058
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• #3 Batten pocket failing... viz: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 9823643810
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• Batten Tensioning Rings Misaligned... viz: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 5161565442
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• Downhaul Rivet Failed... viz https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 5344680178 and https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 2957521394
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In 30+ years of windsurfing, I have been through quite a few sails - but failure has always been via season-after-season of UV exposure causing the material to become prone to rips and tears.

I have never seen anything like this.

Am I the only one ?

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Pete:
In my experience with our TI, letting the sail flap around in high winds, seems to be really hard on the sails and shortens it's life by a huge factor. Anymore I tend to only go out in lower winds (under 15 mph) and try and not allow the sail to flutter. Actually we tend to only go out in 3-7mph winds mostly (the main reasons for the wing and motors is to cover vast distances in the typical low winds here at our desired cruise speed of 8-10 mph). We also have a wing jib that works pretty safely to 25 mph wind, and has close to equal power as the main in higher winds, so I tend to put the main away (furled) in anything over about 12 mph trying to save the sail, and sail only on the wing. Most of my damage is more from rough handling when storing on the boat (small rips and pokes), should probably store in the bag, but I don't.
My downhaul rivet failed a long time ago, now that piece is glued on.
The clear part of the sail seems to be more sensitive to damage from flailing about. I've worn out several Hobie sails (I sail pretty much every weekend), and the clear mylar part is usually what goes first.
I suspect because these sails are designed to furl, the service life is much shorter than a windsurfer sail.
My current sail was put in service in 2012 and is mostly used in lighter winds, and I try very hard not to allow it to flutter. I suspect if I sailed often in the much higher winds you describe often, my sail would have worn out along time ago.
Don't know what else to say.
FE

My TI has been used a fair bit since I got it in mid 2012 and shows nowhere near the degradation your does... the condition of your sail seems to me to be a warranty issue, certainly where there is misalignment which looks like a manufacturing fault.

Have you approached your dealer? (I know I know, like a broken record, but it always requires dealer input IMHO)

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Yes you should definately take it to your dealer. In my experience Hobie supports their products very well, and in our experience our sail on our TI has held up really well to 4yrs of weekly use in many different conditions (we sail the heck out of our TI, often ten to fifteen miles a week in ocean conditions, mostly salt water). Yes our sail is worn, but thats after literally thousands of miles of weekly use in all kinds of conditions (sometimes pretty harsh).
I'm not trying to lecture here (though it sounds like it), I'm just trying to describe our own experience with Hobie's sails on our TI, and the wear we have experienced ourselves, and tried my best to describe the typical conditions we have used ours in as a gage for others. As well as my own observations on allowing the sail to luff and flutter too much leading to pre-mature destruction.
Bottom line, I would definately take it to the dealer, the wear appears to be unusual compared to what most of the rest of us have experienced.
One other note, the adventure boats have a CE "D" rating (look it up), my recommendation is to never exceed the boats published ratings, it's simply not designed for CE "C" conditions. Yea some of us take ours out anyway (guilty), but the liability and responsability is on us (not Hobie) when we do (I accept that).
FE

Edit:
I already anticipate hearing all about CE ratings not being enforced in the US, and we don't have to abide to them. However, I feel the CE rating system is a fair measure of a boats intended capabilities. In this country we are completely controlled by the lobbys and capitalism (example NRA), and it's extremely difficult to get any common sense laws passed (nobody want's big brother). Just speaking from my own experience with my own TI's, the CE rating should be adhered to especially by new sailers without a lot of real sea experience, and understanding of the engineering of such boats, my opinion is your life can depend on it. Thats why I always state real vs imagined capabilities.

Your sail is in much worse condition than my 2015 TI sail - which gets a fair amount of use.

In all fairness.. was there a situation or multiple situations where you abused the sail? As already mentioned, I can only image that sort of damage caused by flogging in high winds - for a long period of time.

There must be more to the story than "used for one year"?

The downhaul rivet does look all corroded.. no good after only one year.

Are you getting the fraying of edges along seams - where the material was preseumably cut with a hot knife?
e.g. https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 1012424626

On mine, it is not just along the leach where flutter could be cited as a cause... but all over the sail... the length of the batten pockets and so-forth.

When I cut material with a hot knife, it leaves a fused edge. .... On my sail I am not seeing that sort of an edge.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Looking beyond the actual damage/wear to the overall condition of the rest of the sail gives me cause to wonder just what's been done to that sail. Odd creases and wrinkles, evidence of rough handle, etc., etc. Maybe the photos are fooling me, but that appears to be a sail that has been handled/used hard and put up wet (no pun intended).

Can you please point me at the legislation which makes swimming in Australian waters not patrolled by lifesavers illegal? This is news to me, and undermines your rant somewhat.

As for the CE ratings, I think you will find that the Islands carry a rating based on their use in "naked" form, ie. without amas or akas, as they have no control over whether these removable parts are used.

I found the following description f the CE ratings. The gap between C and D seems silly. My biggest fear is that insurance companies will discover these things and start using them to worm themselves out of paying claims...

A’ OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, and vessels largely self-sufficient.
‘B’ OFFSHORE: Designed for offshore voyages where conditions up to, and including, wind force 8 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 4 m may be experienced.
‘C’ INSHORE: Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers where conditions up to, and including, wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 2 m may be experienced.
‘D’ SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small bays, small lakes, rivers and canals when conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 0.3 m may be experienced, with occasional waves of 0.5 m maximum height, for example from passing vessels.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

If "Put up wet" means stored without first being dried out, I might agree in the case of fresh water because fresh water invites rot where substandard thread and other materials have been used. .... This was an issue with earlier windsurfing sails (like 20+ years ago) but the makers soon caught on and mended their ways to use better thread..... .... but this is salt water use and salt water does not invite rot.

I agree that it looks like it has been abused.... but, besides letting it flog in high wind (which I do not do) or dragging it across pavement (which I do not do) I can't figure out what "abuse" would be.

It seems to me like it's more a matter of lower quality materials and minimal needlework

To Wit:

• Light-weight dacron - whereas every windsurfing sail I have ever seen in the past 20 years has been a a heavier-weight dacron/mylar laminate). ..... Dacron was abandoned long ago in the windsurfing trade partially because it has such a short lifetime until it "Bags".... i.e. stretches out of shape... which may account for the fluttering I observed yesterday on the leach when close-hauled.
  .
• Whatever metal they used for the downhaul plate rivet instead of stainless steel - which corroded out after just a couple months.
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• Low-end batten caps/adjusters. Look at a decent-quality windsurfing sail and you will see sewn-in screw-actuated batten tension adjusters that no amount of flogging will cause to come apart.
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• Cutting/sewing technique that allows un-hemmed edges to unravel: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 6198278946.

OTOH, if nobody else is experiencing what I have experienced.... maybe it really is on me.

OTOOH, I have heard "You must be the only one...." way too many times in other circumstances.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]